Editors Note: This is second part of Voyager’s epic, but the first part which explores potential characters for the next Smash. It features some opinions, and you may disagree with them. Since this article is very graphic heavy, I added multiple pages. Please scroll to the very bottom to go to the next page. Make sure to follow Voyager on Twitter too!
Part 1: How many Characters will be in the next Smash? A hypothesis.
Part 2: Potential Characters for the Next Smash Roster– Part 1. Covers Mario, Legend of Zelda, Pokemon, Fire Emblem.
Part 3: Potential Characters for the Next Smash Roster– Part 2. Covers Donkey Kong, Metroid, Kirby, and Star Fox. [Will be published today!]
Part 4: Potential Characters for the Next Smash Roster– Part 3. Covers F-Zero, MOTHER, Kid Icarus, Retro, and New Wave characters
Part 5: Potential Characters for the Next Smash Roster– Part 4. Covers Mii Characters and 3rd Party Characters
Hello again:
In the first article, we looked at the number of characters the next Smash could have, and fighting game archetypes that they could use for their movesets.
If you haven’t read it, please read it before continuing on with my analysis!
Current hypothesis for the distribution of the 70 possible roster spots for the next Super Smash Bros. game.
First of all, based on this hypothetical distribution, the beloved Nintendo flagship will serve as the first example of my analysis.
Super Mario Bros.
Historically, this franchise has the upper hand in the roster. First, in Super Smash Bros. 64 we got Mario, Luigi and Yoshi. I put Yoshi in the Super Mario family instead of a separate group despite having its own symbol and spinoff series due to that his origin was in Super Mario World. Then we got Peach, Bowser and Dr. Mario in Melee. In Brawl we got just Wario, which is also included in this group, due to that his origin was in Super Mario Land 2. Finally, in Smash for 3DS and WiiU, we got Bowser Jr. and Rosalina and Luma.
For the moment, we have 9 characters and based on the trend line, we might get a new one… or two.
Characters of the Super Mario Group that have been playable on the Smash series with their first appearance and proposed ‘Archetypes’.
Characters of the Super Mario Group that might appear in the next game.
This group represents diverse archetypes, with a variety of defensive, offensive, and the prototype balanced character of the series. Yes, I believe that Dr. Mario doesn’t have his spot secured. Dr. Mario has been the only Super Mario character that has ever been cut, so it might happen again, this way we can get two NEW characters with new ways of fighting, and maybe we could get Dr. Mario again… But with a new moveset. Also, can we get some Wario Land moves for Wario?, like his iconic Shoulder Ram… Shame Sakurai… Shame
WARNING: I’ll talk a lot about overhauling movesets in this article, take it with a grain of salt, is just for the sake of exploring possibilities. Besides, for this article, don’t expect “easy clones”, despite being the result of the extra efforts of the developer team, and not a waste of time, the idea is to think about new possibilities.
Yeah….but, which characters might we get? Well, this isn’t an easy question to answer by myself… If only I know what a big chunk of the fans want to see… oh yeah… The Source Gaming Smash Poll for the DLC! (Applause)
My good friends of Source Gaming ran this huge poll for over 400 characters (438 to be clear), and almost 2000 people from around the world cast their vote of: “From 1 to 5, how much do you like to see this character as the DLC ballot winner”. And even if the result didn’t came that close, the number of people that cast their vote is somewhat representative of the community, at least more than my own biased opinions. So for this analysis I picked the characters that got at least 2.5 points in said poll (medium to highly requested) or have something worth exploring. That’s around 80 characters.
But you may be thinking “What does this have to do with which character will daddy Sakurai will pick for the next game?” Well, Sakurai himself ran a poll to know which characters will the fans like to see in an hypothetical “Smash 2” in 1999. So now that he made a Ballot, not every character got its chance to be in Smash for 3DS and Wii U, but some of them surely will be in his mind when it came the day to think about Smash 5 (or 6 as Sakurai have confirmed himself). There is a good article about how Sakurai pick the roster for these games, so I’ll follow those steps, and clarify some alternatives if they seem far-fetched.
Well, that was another long explanation on how this article will work, so, let’s-a-go.
Warning: For length sake, I won’t write an entire moveset for each character, but I’ll try to briefly explain what I believe might work for them.
Waluigi: He is a waaah wacky character, known for his dirty moves and foul play, so giving him the option to making his rival trip over with fouls, as kicks or jostling, seems fitting. For this, if you connect your hits with the tip of his long limbs, the rivals might fall over and make easier to connect combos. He could even breakdance (DDR Mario Mix) and swim in the air for recovery (Mario Hoops 3 on 3) to add wackiness to his moveset.
Paper Mario: As with Mario, he will be balanced, but as a paper thin character he might be lightweight, but to compensate this weakness, nothing is better than having a moveset with a hard hitting mallet and maybe the help of his paper friends.
Cap. Toad and Toad: Toads are known to be Strong and Fast but they lack the jumping ability of the mustached brothers. They can be able to pick up turnips, maybe bigger ones. Cap. Toad can have his pickaxe to deal heavy damage, and if you attack him from behind his backpack will grant him some protection, like the clown car of Bowser Jr. And they can have the Propeller Mushroom as their recovery move to compensate their poor air game.
Geno: I put him here despite being third party owned due to simplicity and familiarity. He can have excellent projectiles and beams, giving him the advantage from far away, but like Robin, his moves might need some cool down or have a magic-meter that needs time to be refilled, making him the quintessential glass cannon.
Ashley: She can move swiftly in the battlefield on top of her broomstick and cast spells that leave clouds of hexes that speed down or speed up her enemies. She can attack with short bolts of lightning and Red, the little devil, could be an attacking assistant too.
Daisy: Unlike Waluigi, she respects the fair play, so, as an athlete, she can deal some extra damage when she hits with the tip of a bat or the center of the racket. She also could throw Superballs (Super Mario Land) like a baseball pitcher or kick them like a soccer ball. She could recover with the bunny ears (Super Mario Land 2) or doing a gymnastic somersault.
Fawful: This evil Beanish is a genius, so he won’t get his hands dirty by fighting directly with the fink rats that are in the game, so he would use his vacuum helmet to get around and fire energy beams that can be angled to emulate the feeling of selecting his targets. He could float for moments like peach or have a rocket like recovery like ROB’s.
King Boo: He is one of the few villains that has defeated Mario, so he has what it takes to defeat any hero. With the ability to become intangible could become invulnerable to attacks, but by doing it he won’t be able to attack back, a double edgeless sword. He also could command rings of small Boos to orbit around him and materialize spike balls and launch them as bowling balls.
Dr. Mario: He could come back, and if he does, I hope that he gets an overhaul in his moveset. This can be made if his attacks take the abilities of the viruses that he fights daily: freezing, burning (damage with little knockback) or dealing poison damage (damage without knockback), this abilities might be a little overwhelming, so he can run out of viruses, leaving his attacks weaker and without this added effects. He could even use his medical equipment to attack, like his stethoscope or even throw the culture/pill jar.
Super Mario Characters in order of punctuation in the poll, or “Points of popularity” and the proposed archetype that they could represent.
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I can deal with Waluigi being tied for first choice
It’s undeniable, Waluigi has a lot of unironic fans… and that’s great =P
With as popular as Ashley’s been getting in the past few years, combined with the sheer numbers of Badge Arcade badges she has and her appearance in Game&Wario, her possibility seems pretty high at the moment. She would also have a very unique playstyle, casting spells and flying around. Her broom move could be similar to Wario’s to match her companion fighter too. Honestly she’s one of the character I find most likely to get into Smash NX/6. She’s unique, fun as a fighter, relevant, and popular.
Agreed. when i was reading and watching videos of every character, she was a surprise for me. at the beginning I believed that she was just “another charismatic one-shot NPC” but she has shown that she could be more than that.
Anyways, the Mario list is just 10, but it could be 100… there are a ton of interesting characters, so I’m sure that if we get one in the future, it will be great.
Hey there, just wanted to say that I’m enjoying your article so far and had a few things to comment on!
-One of the great things about the Mario series is that because it’s broad variety of colorful characters can fill a broad number of niches in the Smash roster, which is why I think Rosalina and Bowser Jr. got in 4 over long-time favorites such as Waluigi and Daisy. Nonetheless I’m rooting for Geno for the next Smash, his Mii costume in 4 felt the most genuine and I can’t help but feel Sakurai already has an idea for what role he could fill in the Smash roster.
-Breath of the Wild will likely include a variety of new characters who could potentially make it in time for the next Smash game. The new Link could even play differently based on the new powers being introduced in BotW and I’m interested to see whether Sakurai stays with the TP Link design or introduces a new costume.
-I can’t really say I agree with the assumption that the next Smash will reduce the number of playable Pokemon and/or Fire Emblem characters, although I don’t necessarily believe their representation will be increased either. Sun and Moon seem to be adding both a variety of new Pokemon as well as new Alolan forms for older Pokemon; any of which may be viable candidates for the Smash Bros roster. As for Fire Emblem, although there’s been no announcement of a new game the popularity of it’s last two additions to the main series indicates it will remain a staple in the Smash Bros series going into it’s next installment.
Looking forward to more discussion on this topic and the next article!
Thanks for commenting.
Yeah, the Mario series has a lot of potential characters, but some, as Rosalina and Bowser Jr. had more potencial to become something unique. so for this I tried to give other characters something original that represent them
Geno would be awesome tho, it’s one of mine favorite options, but I would be cool with anything if they manage to make them distinct.
Maybe, that would be really interesting, even the Old Man could have some chances if he becomes an important NPC.
Yup, that’s the most polarizing point, but as some people believe that the next game could have maybe even less characters (that’s a whole other possibility that would be cool to explore), this works as an exercise in priorities
Thanks, I hope to deliver quality articles =)
This is pretty much a good list from what I see. However, I can’t see King Boo becoming a fighter, of all the Mario bosses, but rather see Kamek. There’s something about the intangibility trade-off that I might not get until it’s in action. I do not know if Kamek is better suited in the Yoshi series than in the Mario games since he’s been Bowser’s assistant since childhood and unsure you guys might be saving him for the Yoshi series. As for the other lists, Hyrule warriors made me believe in every character so I think it’s fine. The Pokemon list has potential to have a more diverse roster from different generations even though the trend in both Smash and Pokken have gen 1 representatives as the majority. I’m neutral towards the Fire Emblem cast as I never got into FE but happy that each character should have similar movesets.
Kamek, he could work really well too, I missed the chance to talk about him, But aside being more a Yoshi character, I’ll put him under the Bowser army symbol, the borders between Yoshi and Mario are blurry.
Hyrule warriors did a great work with Link’s harem and friends =P
Pokemon and FE have a gigantic potential of diverse characters, but talk about more of them could easily might get out of hand. I hope that Tekken get more diverse pokemon, there are a lot of Fire Types…
Thanks for commenting =)
I like a lot of the ideas presented here – the characters are represented pretty well in the ideas you have for movesets. I do think that cutting Pokémon down to five characters is unrealistic, as it’s one of Nintendo’s biggest and most popular franchises. While Pokkén does exist and helps represent some of the other ‘mon that don’t appear in Smash, all of the Pokémon that are already in Smash have unique movesets, and each bring something different to the table. Personally, I’d have used the two extra slots for Pokémon – one to make sure that all six of the Smash for Wii U veterans return, and another to include a Gen 7 / 8 Pokémon. (My bet’s on Rowlet’s evolution.)
Oh, and I like how you flipped the Triforce upside-down for Hilda – that was a nice touch, haha.
hehe, thanks =). I really want to make a “dream smasher” for a lot of these ideas =P it would take a looot of time tho.
Yeah, it’s really unlikely, but I opted to do that in order to present the idea that in the long run, there will be a limit for pokémon characters, so this could be an exercise in priorities =) the same with Fire emblem.
(Yeah, if Rowlet evolves into the archer…Mmm! that would be nice)
I had to come up with some symbols, and I’m really pushing for “Ravio in Smash” XD
This looks really nice! I love how you went into such detail here! But, I’m curious, I sort of expected Linkle and Toon Princess Zelda to be on here. Is there a reason they’re not?
Thanks, it has been a lot of work XD (The Editors know it, this “article” has over 60 pages, almost the same than my University Thesis)
Yeah, Linkle… She could work really well as her own character with some moves based on other Link moves, like the Pegasus/Metal boots and the crossbow that she has in Hyrule Warriors, but maybe we will see her as a Skin for Link, like what Lucina could become for Marth in the future
Toon Zelda in other hand, I believe that it’s better to have a good Zelda first. But yeah, she could work more as a Sage (light magic, area-of-effect attacks) if they give Zelda new moves (like the sword they give her in TLoZ-TP or even some Rune magic from TLoZ-BoTW
Zelda as a franchise needs more representation and as you have show right now, even I can’t represent all of their possible newcomers accordingly =P
I would like to state my opinion that we do have a good Zelda in Smash and I will have a civil debate with anyone who thinks otherwise.
I would like to read a debate about that too. I believe that she could get some little tweaks, but as for representing her character she is all right.
Thanks for commenting.
Sorry, but I also forgot to ask why isn’t Mona from WarioWare also considered a candidate? She could basically use the mini-games from WarioWare that Wario and (HYPOTHETICALLY) Ashley wouldn’t use in battle. Mona would basically play like a “modern” Mr. Game and Watch.
Yeah, I believe that she and Cap. Syrup have chances. I didn’t include them to save me some time, this list could be for over 30 characters just for Mario =P
and this way you can comment about some of them to open new debates.
Only complaints I have are Paper Mario and the use of female Robin/Overalls Wario in the graphics – and lack of DK.
My complaints of female Robin are arbitrary, mainly because it’s the most popular skin, but male Robin seems to be seen in promotional materials as the default.
The same with Wario – who is more popular by western players with his iconic outfit instead of his WarioWare get up – it seemingly shouts that no one cares or even hates WarioWare.
It should be noted that due to promotional materials and products like the new wave of Super Mario amiibo – DK is seemingly lumped in with the greater Mario franchises in the eyes of Nintendo.
Last, is more a personal thing, but I don’t see the significance of Paper Mario being treated as a “separate Mario” in any regard. The series had a different art style and played with the motif a bit, but even if the story and characters tapped on the 4th wall on occasion, they still acted as if the game and its characters were a part of the main series, despite the art style and genre being completely different.
It’s only recently with Sticker Star, Paper Jam, and Color Splash that the art style was showcased more literally and the idea that there’s a ‘paper universe’ took off – making it seem more like there is another Mario. And even if that was the reason for Paper Mario in Smash, they would not include the partners in his moveset given the direction the series has taken.
it’s all right. DK will be in the next chapter.
and for Robin I put her to don’t have just boys in the “might come back” list. as I let Corrin as a boy. But you are right male Corrin is the one that they show for marketing.
In the case of Wario I did it to push the point that the Wario land games have moves that can be better represented.
DK is in his own group because of the Rare/Retro era, in those games is where their franchise grows without using Mario, unlike the Yoshi sub-group that still is placed into the Mario Canon. But it’s subjective. there are blured lines for them.
Well, for me Paper Mario could work like Toon Link, in the way that they are the “same character” but they have SO many different incarnations, they have sufficient moves to have 2 characters that don’t need to share one of them. I hope that Toon link gets almost 80% decloned. but yeah, Paper mario could work as his own without partners, but they could add more possibilities to his moveset.
Thanks for commenting.
I’m sorry, but the idea of Pokemon getting fewer reps is ridiculously improbable. The series remains Nintendo 2nd biggest franchise, AND it constantly gets new characters, AND it’s enjoying a renaissance thanks to Pokemon Go. Even assuming there’s a cap on each series, Pokemon is just about the last series that would get downsized (save for a massive roster-wide downgrade).
The most convincing new characters here are “7th gen Pokemon” and “New Fire Emblem lord”, because those speak to how Sakurai actually chooses characters. Most of the others are too low-profile outside of vocal fan circles.
it’s all right. feel free to disagree, I don’t agree with some of the characters that I have showcase but I followed the results of the poll, so my opinions can’t influence it that much.
The cut of characters, was to test waters, I don’t want to lose characters, but those 2 series have lost some. And for some the next game could even have less characters, so it’s a possibilitiy that we could not ignore. the game can’t grow forever.
Yeah, those ideas are the more likely, but I wanted to showcase some moveset ideas that might be interesting so see in smash.
This is great! I love this article and I admire the analysis, determination and other forms of hard work that went into this.
The archetypes cover the different playstyles very well and rarely miss the point of the character (Though I wouldn’t say Bowser Jr. is a sniper, he’s more like a sweetspot trapper that uses disjoints and Mechakoopa’s to start combos)
The reason I post this comment though is to suggest the addition of Nabbit to the list of potential Mario newcomers.
While his popularity as measured in the Mega Smash Poll isn’t high, that data is both outdated and aimed at Smash specifically, both factors hurting Nabbit.
Since the poll was conducted before DLC, it lacks the the people’s opinion of Nabbit from his newest appearances, like Mario & Sonic and Paper Jam (and if my theory is correct, Color Splash)
Secondly, the fact the poll was conducted to ask for interest for Smash DLC also hurts Nabbit.
People do not see Nabbit as Smash-material (yet, considering his momentum) even if they like him in his other roles.
Mario Kart 9’s potential rosters often have Nabbit included as new characters and while Mario Kart isn’t Smash, it does serve as an indication of what people like/ deem important.
Take Rosalina pre-smash as an example.
While she was the “rising star” of the Mario series, being popular and included in more and more games, she wasn’t deemed Smash material.
This sentiment is augmented by the fact that the poll was conducted in a time where “slots” for DLC were deemed limited (for a good reason). Anything “out of the box” took a slot from Ballot Heavyweights like King K. Rool and Inkling, which hurts the likeability.
Now that the Mega Smash Poll is out of the way, let’s look at Nabbit’s pros.
First, he’s still a rising star, with most of his appearances being very recent.
This is both a boon and a curse, considering we don’t know what will happen with Nabbit in the NX-phase.
He could drop from the earth like Petey Piranha did post-GCN but his amazing momentum could build up to a Smash slot.
Smash NX is probably not happening soon and I have faith that Nabbiit will continue appearing throughout the Mario series which would definitely place him above Fawful in likelyness.
I can’t say much about a moveset, since his appearances haven’t shown more than potential stats, though Nabbit can definitely take on a trickster style based around deceiving, stealing and of course a lot of running!
In short, I think by the time Smash V hits, Nabbit will have enough credentials to have what it takes to be a true Smasher
Thanks for the comment.
yeah Nabbit, Ravio and the Arcade bunny are some characters that didn’t appear in the poll… and honestly I forgot Nabbit. he could have interesting moves tho.
Yeah, there are so many characters that I can’t be 100% right about their archetypes, so thanks for making that point about bowser Jr. he surely fits into the trapper / sweetspotter kind =)
You are right about that the “momentum” of the characters, and that could change everything, not only on this list. but yeah, if nabbit gets more exposure he could easily STOLE that free spot =P
Nabbit did appear in the poll, though he didn’t score very well (again, the hostile “he’s gonna steal the limited spots”-enviroment that the DLC-era encouraged doesn’t do much good to dark horses)
Ravio and Arcade Bunny are both great choices and hopefully the former gets a wave of supporters this winter after they see Ravio kicking butt in the Hyrule Warriors DLC (Including inspiration on how Wall Merge would work in a wall-less enviroment) and the latter gets a new Badge Arcade on the NX (I have a gut feeling they’re gonna amp it up on the customisation) because I just can’t get enough of the greedy bunch of rabbits
To be honest, Bowser Jr. does have an odd playstyle, so if there’s one character hard to pin-point an archetype of it’s him.
I have a theory that Nabbit will appear in Color Splash and I sure hope he does. Every game counts to keep the momentum to the NX!
Maybe less important than momentum is that the games give him movepool
The current games give him a great archetype as Fragile Trick Speedster Thief but he lacks a moveset to show it off, all he does is run.
Paper Jam introduces new moves for him, but they’re either unsuited for Smash (Stealing weapons, it would be really unbalanced in multiple ways) or out of character/one-time things (Spawning minions is not unique to Nabbit).
The Rio Olympic games gave him a special move in the 100m, but I was crushed to find out the move just consisted of “Running harder with small dust clouds behind him”
Welp, I did my Nabbit rant of the day, I’ll see you in the third party part ranting about the Pac-Man Ghosts. (And in part two to post my Ravio moveset :p)
Keep up the amazing work!
This is an impressive article. I really like how deep in analysis you’re going with this. Great stuff. Is there also a chance that you’d be making an article of characters from Nintendo IPs with no playable Smash characters.
It’s coming up in a later part. Part 4 or 5 I believe. That’s what retro and New Wave are (so if Isaac is on the list he will be under New Wave). And I’m not spoiling anything for you so your just gonna have to wait and see 😉
that’s right, I have put a lot of effort to showcase the most characters possible.
Thanks Isaac for the comment, I hope not to let you down.
And thank Nantendo for accepting my first draft =)
Another great article, there’s clearly been a lot of effort put into this. There’s an awful lot to talk about, but I’ll try to keep things short and go section-by-section.
I’ve weighed my thoughts on a new Mario rep in the past, and I think as long as we’re speaking uniqueness (since that is a major factor in determining new characters for Smash from Sakurai’s perspective), Captain Toad, Geno, and Ashley are good picks. Waluigi is possibly also a good choice, but I don’t know enough about him personality-wise to make that judgement. Paper Mario might be too similar to Mario, though he has the potential for a completely new moveset. Giving Dr. Mario a new moveset is a cool idea, I personally wouldn’t mind it, even though I like the current Doc.
People have been over this several times, but I do not want a new moveset for Ganondorf. I love the way he plays right now, and I think just giving him a sword wouldn’t necessarily make him more interesting. If I wanted a powerhouse with a sword, I’d play Ike (and I do play Ike!). However, that being said, I would be cool with the sword enhancing his current moveset. For instance, his custom Warlock Punch that uses the sword was a great addition to his character, and I wouldn’t mind moves like that being added to replace some of his moves. I’m probably biased because I like playing Ganondorf more than I like playing Toon Link, but on the other hand, I wouldn’t mind a new moveset for Toon Link. I guess in this case, Toon Link already has another character on the roster who plays somewhat similar to him (Link), while Ganondorf doesn’t (Even though Ganondorf is a semi-clone of Captain Falcon, their playstyles are completely different). Besides this, I don’t have enough familiarity with the series to say anything other than I think Midna and Vaati would be great picks. I don’t think Masked Young Link will happen though, since he’d essentially be another transforming character. If I’m not mistaken, part of the reason there were no transforming characters in Smash 4 was (in addition to system limitations) that it forced people to learn multiple characters (Pokemon Trainer) or people would just pick one and never use the other, essentially wasting a move (Zelda/Shiek).
I’ve said in the past that I don’t like talking about cuts, and this is with my favorite series too D: With that being said, I’ll try to restrain myself. Blaziken and Sceptile are pretty safe choices, and Gengar could bring a really sneaky moveset with him to mess with opponents. Red is 100% not going to happen though. I remember hearing that when Bandai Namco was asking the Pokemon Company who they could add in Pokken Tournament, they explicitly said no trainers. Which makes sense to me, since its the Pokemon themselves that do the fighting and are the main draw of the series. I think a 7th Gen Pokemon is highly likely, but I’m not going to make any calls yet as to who it might be. One thing worth noting is that I recall Sakurai saying that he paid attention to the movies often when deciding which Pokemon to add, which would explain Mewtwo’s and Lucario’s inclusion. If a movie is released during the next Smash’s development cycle that’s centered around a Pokemon that’s not too overpowered for Smash, I could see that becoming inspiration.
Fire Emblem is another interesting thing, since I’m a fan of its characters. Roy setting his sword on fire for bonus damage at the cost of recoil is an interesting idea, I like it. Lucina losing her clone status to accomodate her personality is a bit funny, considering she was the one who literally poses as Marth in Awakening. I don’t see any particular Fire Emblem character bringing more than one weapon to the table unless they do it like Robin does, but it could be done. I think it’s worth noting that Sakurai intended Lucina to be easier to play than Marth, so it may be worth keeping that in mind for any future moveset she might have. Tiki and Hector both sound like interesting options to me, and while it’s not listed here, there was a great Dream Smashers article for Azura that makes me think she’d be a good fit too, as far as uniqueness is concerned. I think relevancy is the more important issue, and since Tiki and Anna are recurring characters, they have a boost in that department.
…This didn’t end up being short at all 😀
Thanks for the great comment.
Paper mario could even borrow some ideas of the other RPG games, like SMRPG and the M&L Super Star saga. Mario has so many games that I’m sure that we could even have another 100% original Luigi =P
I agree that Ganondorf plays right. his moves use a lot of brute Power, anyways, Cap. Falcon moveset was original, so no moves are strictly canonical for him. But still I would love to see Ganondorf to use more magical moves to set him apart, giving him a sword might be cool, but Ganondorf/Ganon have a lot of abilities that they could use for him.
As far as I know, the removal of transformations was to adapt to the 3DS capabilities too.
yeah, the relationship of Smash and Pokemon has a lot to do with the Anime series. that’s maybe the only group that have that kind of references.
I cut Azura of the list to make it a little shorter, but she really has potential, but the idea of getting “newers lords” has a lot of weight. But if she doesn’t get to be a playable character I would be fine with her as an Assist Trophy. and as for Tikki and Ana I hope that we could get at least one of them, they are recurring characters as you said and could get interesting movesets that don’t need to rely in swords =P
Man, I hope Lucina comes back, along with Roy. Of course their move sets would have to be changed, but I’ve always done really well with both, so maybe don’t change ’em too much.
As a player I like them but the interest of the article is to showcase new options that can serve to promote the games and their wide spectrum of characters. but yeah. I hope that they don’t get cut but it’s impossible to know.
Thanks for the comment
I’m surprised that you limited Pokemon and Fire Emblem to 5 characters, as that’s highly improbable. Pokemon is Nintendo’s second biggest franchise, constantly gets new characters, and had 6 characters in both Brawl and Smash 4. FE having 5 characters is only reasonable if both Roy and Lucina are cut, and I don’t see the former likely getting cut since his popularity brought him back for Smash 4 and upgraded him to semi-clone status.
For Mario characters, Dr. Mario getting cut seems probable, since he was added as a last minute clone in both Melee and Smash 4, and was cut in Brawl. I don’t see Waluigi, Daisy, and Fawful getting in, since they’re stuck in Mario spinoffs, and it’s clear that spinoffs don’t seem to notably affect character selection in Smash. Paper Mario is in a similar situation, although the Paper Mario series got a stage in Smash 4, but I don’t see the series remaining super popular if we continue to get entries like Sticker Star. I don’t see King Boo happening, since he’s a pretty minor character, and is simply a king version of a mook. Geno seems a bit more likely than the others since he was considered for Brawl, but licensing issues and lack of appearances (1 appearance, 2 cameos) definitely hurt his chances. The only ones that I consider realistic choices are Toad (especially Captain Toad) and Ashley. Captain Toad has gotten a number of appearances and a spinoff of his own, and Toads themselves have been more important lately with playable appearances in the New Super Mario Bros. games. Ashley has her notable popularity, and was probably at least thought about when choosing the Smash 4 roster, but I don’t know if she’ll actually make the cut.
Zelda is a weird one, since it’s well overdue for a new character or two, since it hasn’t gotten one since Melee (Toon Link might as well be Young Link). The problem seems to stem from popular characters being stuck in one game, and the recurring characters not being as popular. I can see Impa getting into Smash, but Sheik is a hurdle, since Sheik is likely here to stay, and Impa is a ninja like Sheik in her non-spinoff appearances where she can fight. Maybe they could incorporate more magic abilities into Impa’s moveset? Tetra, Midna, Ghirahim, and Ravio are interesting picks, but it seems unlikely that they’ll appear in future games. Skull Kid is recurring, but he’s only a notable character in one non-recent game. Masked Young Link seems unlikely, since his central mechanic is in one non-recent game, being a redundant character with Toon Link (who’s likely staying), and transforming characters likely being scrapped for good (they weren’t a good idea in the first place imo). I could see Vaati getting in, but only if he makes a recent appearance, as he’s a recurring villain with interesting abilities. Lana is a one-off spinoff character and will likely stay that way, so she’s out. I could actually see Tingle making it in, but Sakurai has stated that his widespread hatred in the West is a barrier to entry.
For Pokemon, Pikachu is the only character that’s truly guaranteed for every Smash, but I don’t see Charizard and Lucario getting cut anytime soon, since they’re both incredibly popular, frequently appear in prominent roles in the franchise, and are heavily marketed. Jigglypuff is probably staying as well, but is always in danger of barely not getting into the game on time. Mewtwo’s popularity got it back into Smash 4, and is in a similar position to Charizard and Lucario, although not quite to the same degree, so it’ll probably stay. Greninja is a tossup, as it’s currently in a similar position of heavy marketing, so that marketing keeping up will likely be the deciding factor. Pokemon Trainer is almost certainly gone for good, as transforming characters are probably going to remain axed, and the character requires a ton of work for one that no one will use, plus it has to drag two less popular Pokemon along with Charizard. Sceptile missed the boat for good since ORAS is no longer relevant to Smash, and the character isn’t even that popular, as people merely pushed it as the third wheel to complete a hypothetical “starter trio”. Gengar is popular, but isn’t THAT popular, and isn’t heavily marketed, which are the things that get Generation I Pokemon into Smash nowadays. Blaziken, like Sceptile, permanently lost its chance after ORAS, but wouldn’t have been an interesting choice anyways, and isn’t really that popular. Red seems unlikely since human characters aren’t really the important part of the Pokemon franchise. A Gen VII Pokemon is inevitable, and my bet is on either Rowlet’s final evolution (Rowlet seems to be the most popular starter right now) or Rockruff’s final evolution (Rockruff seems like it’ll be one of the more marketed Pokemon, as there’s to be a manga series about a trainer and his Rockruff, and Rockruff and the starters are getting hyped up for their “secret”).
Fire Emblem seems to draw new characters exclusively from the most recent entry, so character prediction is simple. Lucina is likely to get cut, as she’s a Marth clone. Roy might be cut as well, but I think that his popularity and newfound semi-clone status may save him. Robin and Corrin are from extremely popular and successful entries and aren’t clones of any sort, so they’re likely safe. Anna is one of the only recurring characters in FE, but she’s not very likely for Smash as she’s not a very important character. Tiki’s in a similar boat, but unlike Anna, she probably won’t appear in the newest FE games. Lyn, Hector, Chrom, and Ephraim are highly unlikely, as they’re all one-offs from non-recent FE games. Chrom could maybe appear in a future game, but he was already rejected from Smash for not offering anything unique. The main character from the newest FE game is pretty much inevitable.
TL;DR:
Mario: -Dr. Mario, +Captain Toad, ~Ashley, ~Paper Mario
Zelda: ~Impa, ~Vaati
Pokemon: ~Jigglypuff, ~Greninja, +Generation VII Pokemon (probably the final evolution of either Rowlet or Rockruff)
Fire Emblem: -Lucina, ~Roy, +Newest main character
Thanks for the comment.
I know that the cut’s are improbable (almost everyone seems to believe it =P) but it was a possibility to test reactions and for me to try to think in prioritize characters.
I agree with your choices, my idea was to showcase potential interesting movesets that reflect the choices of the poll, that it’s a little outdated but I hope that it work better for other franchises…
Sorry for the short answer, but as I agree with almost everything you said I have little to add up =)
I agree that Blaziken’s and Sceptile’s relevancy are fading, but both of them did appear in Pokken Tournament, so they’re not completely out of the picture. Plus, they can both Mega-Evolve, giving them both a simple option for a Final Smash.
“Blaziken, like Sceptile, permanently lost its chance after ORAS, but wouldn’t have been an interesting choice anyways, and isn’t really that popular.”
All three parts of this statement are objectively wrong. Blaziken is very popular. There’s a reason he was the only Gen III starter to get a Mega Evolution before OR/AS, not to mention the only non-Gen I starter at all to get a Mega in X and Y, and one of the first revealed too. Not to mention being one of the first two Pokemon shown for Pokken Tournament (in the original teaser, not the Reveal Trailer).
I have to disagree with you on Pokémon’s representation. It’s Nintendo’s second biggest series and has an absolutely massive amount of characters whose can all use a wide range of moves and techniques, many from elements that other Nintendo characters rarely touch. The fact that it stayed put at 6 characters in Smash 4 was actually really surprising, and it wouldn’t make any sense for it to fall down to 5 in the next game.
If the “Smash 4.5” rumors hold true, I could even see Pokémon getting two newcomers! Rowlet’s final form looks poised to become the Greninja of the Grass starters, and if the leaks and rumors are right, Rockruff’s evolution could end up being Gen 7’s Lucario!
Feel free to disagree, I write this series to open debates, and apparently it’s working =).
I believe that Pokemon and Fire emblem could get easily 7 characters each, but I wanted to give more space to represent new and older characters too. and this way we can talk about priorities for the 2 new flagship franchises.
Also, I write this article for a possible New Iteration as in Smash 5 (or 6). But the possibility to get a 4.5 isn’t bad. this roster is easily one of the best ever, so adding more to it without losing anything it’s a win win scenario.
and I totally agree if the leaks are true that Rowlet amazing archer evolution would work perfectly. but in other hand I’m not a big supporter of Lucario depite of being a really interesting playable character, he isn’t as iconic. and the big problem is that with over 800 Pokemon on the horizon, it will be harder and harder to select representatives for Smash. But as I said in one of your videos, I hope that in Pokken 2 we would get a lot more varied pokemon that couldn’t make into smash because they aren’t iconic enough.
Thanks for commenting
I think Lucario is still iconic. He was notable enough in Gen 4 to get a movie centered around him, and a few different Lucarios have since appeared in the anime. Korrina even joined Ash’s party for a brief period of time, and there was a lot of focus on her Lucario who could Mega-Evolve.
Agreed, Lucario is clearly on the Top 10 most iconic, but not that high (maybe 8-9th place) in MY list =P. Anyways I still believe that he will come back as the Mega Evolution – Aura posterboy
Sakurai: ALL OF THEM! I want all of them! I love you Kaga-san!
In one of my videos I make a joke of it, with the scene from “Léon: The professional” in which Gary Oldman character wants EVERYONE!! when I asked him for which pokemon he wants to see in the upcoming games.
I’ve read the previous article, and it was interestingly great! I really like to comment on this as I’m also interested when it comes with understandable speculations. Since this is meant to be the long article, I’m gonna separate my comments for each franchises, since my comment is too long too. Sorry for my lengthy comment.
Its quite interesting that you’ve changed Bowser and Jr.’s icon to the Koopa clan icon than the Mushroom icon. Choosing Waluigi and Daisy may make sense, since they’re both popular characters through fan base as many have been requesting both of them to be playable in Smash, and wanted their amiibo as Nintendo FINALLY announced it to be released in the near future. Waluigi may represent the Mario sports games as he can use tricky moves that he mostly used from baseball, strikers, tennis, etc. Daisy may represent the Mario sports games too for being speedy and powerful, or maybe Mario Party for using certain mini game references as her attacks, or maybe items used in Super Mario Land series as her main specials.
Toad may possibly work too as he became playable since New! Super Mario series, but since the original Toad’s been occupied as Peach’s lethal counter weapon, I think Captain Toad should be best as he’s more popular. He can become the most lowest jumper of all characters, but powerful to carry opponents freely like how Donkey Kong does, and light weighted as can easily be blown away, being the combination of Super Mario Bros. 2 (USA)’s strength and Mario Kart’s weight.
I’m not really impressed with having “another Mario” in Smash, but since Paper Mario seems to be treated as alternate dimension according Paper Jam, just like how the original and Toon Link takes place in alternate dimension and timeline, I think Paper Mario may be possible to join in. However, I think its better for him to use a hammer as his main attacks, and use badge moves rather than stickers or cards as Paper Mario should return to his form. His final smash though…I never wanna accept this…but maybe the giant fan.
I don’t know about Geno’s case because he also belongs to SquareEnix, and definitely they’ll need permission from them if they want him to join Smash. But Sakurai did state that he wanted Geno to be in Smash, so maybe it’s possible, but I think they’ll treat him as the secondary SquareEnix character alongside with Cloud.
I strongly doubt that Fawful and King Boo should join in. No matter how popular they are, I don’t think they’re really that important anymore. And I must say, I do hope they’ll remove Dr. Mario because he’s nothing more but Mario’s clone in his doctor cosplay.
I would rather prefer to separate Yoshi and Wario from this roster if possible. I know they’re born from the Mario series, but even they’re games are simply spinoffs, they take place in the different series outside of the Mario series, just like the Donkey Kong series. Although Yoshi may not have a new character since his series lack main characters (except for Kamek if possible), I think Ashley should be the perfect choice to join in, but rather being in the Wario Ware roster alongside with Wario. She can use thunder and fire magic if possible, but I think it’ll be interesting if she used her own themed mini game references as her attacks, while she can summon the cookie boss from Game & Wario to attack her opponents, and finishing off with the giant laser magic as her final smash.
There may be a possibility that Rosalina might be removed because she was an unexpected entry. IAnd if that happens, then I think this is the roster that’ll be like in my opinion…
Super Mario: Mario/Luigi/Peach/Bowser/Bowser Jr./Toad/Waluigi/Daisy
Yoshi’s Island: Yoshi
Wario Ware: Wario/Ashley
it’s all right, the complete series has almost 90 pages XD And I tried my best to be concise XD
I tried to come up with symbols for some characters in order to differentiate them, and Bowser with a Mario symbol, over his drybones corpse =P.
For Waluigi and Daisy I tried to convey that, as he would use cheap tactics and she wont =)
I put Geno in this list to compare him to other Mario characters, but yeah, as a third party he is a wild card, but as you said Sakurai wants him. so I still have my hopes.
I understand that, but this was made for the trend. as if you only have 1 character, your trend won’t go up (or down), and putting them togeter with Mario, help them. and yeah, Kamek might be a really nice adittion, but I would put him under a Bowser symbol – victory theme despite being a Yoshi character =P
I don’t believe that they would cut Rosalina and Luma, they are highly original and competitively viable. but no one knows.
Thanks for commenting =)
For the Zelda rosters…I do have a feeling that Shiek may have a possibility to get removed at some point, because Ocarina of Time has became too old, and Shiek only appeared on that game (excluding Hyrule Warriors because spinoffs don’t count). Although Shiek was planned to be in Twilight Princess as her design explains, I think that wouldn’t matter anymore. However, replacing her with Impa may work as they’re both Shieka warriors, and its possible that Impa could use similar movesets of Shiek, but using a different final smash instead. I’m one of those people who’s supporting Impa’s inclusion, but I know what her flaws are that may keep her being excluded. I may think of making a “Case of” article about Impa sometime, while I’ll leave her “Dream Smasher” article to someone else.
Tetra is a interesting pick as she’s the main heroine in the Toon universe, but difficult on what she can do to make her unique in Smash. As the transformation mechanic is removed, it may be impossible to turn her into Toon Zelda, which might end up being a Zelda clone. But if Toon Zelda did appear and does something different from the original Zelda (like the Dream Smasher article of hers), I think I could accept her.
Tingle is another interesting pick. Not just that he’s a supportive character in the series, but he also became a main protagonist on 3 of his titles. His actual artwork design in that game may be ugly, but I think its best to keep his Toon style to soften his face up in a better look. I think he can rely on his friends Kakashi the scarecrow, Buriki the lady robot, and Lion the cowardly lion for assistance, as they can also become his final smash.
For Ghirahim, Skullkid, and Vaati’s case, I wouldn’t think they’ll have a chance to join Smash. As I mentioned on Mario’s side, no matter how these villains were popular, I don’t think they’re that important anymore. Unlike Ganondorf who’s the main villain of the series, these other guys are simply “minor” villains, which they’ve only appeared once (Vaati twice) in their games. Sure they’ll work perfectly in Hyrule Warriors, but Smash doesn’t seem to be enough for them.
Finally for Lana, I doubt she’ll even join Smash. Not just that she’s from the non-canon spinoff game, but her ownership. Hyrule Warriors isn’t only Nintendo, but also belongs to Koei Tecmo, and before they could ask for permission of her entry, they also need a permission for having Koei Tecmo join Smash too. It will work if possible, but that would also mean they must add their third party character too, which I will explain later on. This can also be said to Linkle as well too.
So, it really depend whether Shiek will survive or not, but for my personal Zelda roster, I’m gonna leave Shiek in its place just in case. Furthermore, I think this will be the roster if possible…
Legend of Zelda: Link/Zelda/Shiek/Ganondorf/Toon Link/Impa/Tetra or Toon Zelda
Yeah, sheik could even get replaced by Impa… but I’m sure that people wouldn’t like it…
Tetra and Toon Zelda are interesting characters but I had a hard time coming with a moveset idea that would make her interesting, I’m sure that other people has better ideas tho.
Tingle as a toon character is the best option for him =P
Yeah, some of those villains may fade with time, the only ones that will be coming back are Vaati and the Skull kid (as an NPC, not a villain)
Lana is in the same boat as Geno, I forget to mention that =P, and from Koei Tecmo we could get Ryu Hayabusa first…
that roster for Zelda seems like the safest bet to this day, maybe Breath of the wild might change things… I hope so, I like new faces.
For the Pokemon series…like how other says, Pokemon is Nintendo’s biggest series. Although they have lost many times by their rival franchise Yo-kai Watch, Pokemon has gotten their spotlight back as they’ve celebrated their 20th anniversary this year. Pokken and Pokemon GO has became a successful game, and we get exciting surprises with Sun and Moon, which we’ve understand the game will be ultimately different from the previous versions. So, if that’s the case, I think its perfectly impossible to shrink the roster to 5 slots as it wouldn’t make any sense. It should be better to keep it 6 slots (as it fits perfectly as the party limitation of the actual games), or raise up to 8 as calculated.
For the returning veterans, I would rather say they all represent something. I don’t know if any of it would even count, but I’ll give it out. Charizard represent himself as a starter of the very first Pokemon game, which have now celebrated 20 years of it this year, and also the first Pokemon to reveal two different versions of Mega Evolution, thanks to the Pokemon Origin anime. Mewtwo may represent the final Kanto Pokemon besides Mew which can still complete the Kanto Pokedex without it, but also a star Pokemon of the very first Pokemon movie, which explains his telepathic voice is used in Smash, and the first Pokemon to reveal the existence of Mega Evolution before X and Y was released. Lucario can be in the same position of Mewtwo, but the first non-legendary Pokemon to have a spotlight in the Pokemon movie before Diamond and Pearl was released, and also the iconic fighter in Pokken. Jigglypuff may be complicated whether she’ll stay or leave, but I think she’ll end up staying as the regular unlockable character. Besides, every fighting games need a weak fighter to make the game challenging, and Jigglypuff does fit perfect in that spot. But I prefer adding her a Fairy type moves to improve her strength a little. However, I really don’t know about Greninja’s case. Although he was planned to join Smash before X and Y was released, his entry was definitely unexpected. He wasn’t even that popular before he’s now ranked #1 in the official popularity poll. I do sense he might get removed, but maybe he’ll stay as he represents the Water type starter, as Charizard is the Fire type starter, which leaves the remaining Grass type to complete the starter triangle. But if he did stay, I think he’ll get his final smash changed to something new. I don’t know if they’ll choose AshGreninja for that case because we still don’t even know what that form is. As the staffs refuse to explain what it is, I pretty much that form is the anime original, which will never exist in the later games (except Toroze but that doesn’t count).
Blaziken was popular in the beginning, but later beaten down by Sceptile due to its Mega Evolution with the additional of Dragon type in his form. His entry may represent him the Grass type starter as that’ll complete the starter triangle along with Charizard and Greninja. He even appeared in the anime with the ability of Mega Evolve than any other Hoenn starters as Greninja’s rival, and opportunity to join Pokken as many fans requested. It would be possible to add Sceptile in Smash as the replacement of Ivysaur, which he should be fast thus heavy, but time will tell.
I kinda refuse on Gengar’s entry. He may be the powerhouse of Pokken as many players choose him even in the tournament held at NicoNico Choukaigi (stupid generic contestants that made the tournament boring…), but I wouldn’t think Gengar is really that important either. Sure Smash needs a Ghost type Pokemon, but even then that’s not how it works,
However, if Sakurai did chose Greninja before X and Y was released, then maybe he’ll do the same with Sun and Moon. And if that starter’s final evolution leak is true, then I guess Rowlet’s final form will be chosen for this case, as also filling the Grass starter for the Smash starter triangles. But time will tell too. Maybe it’ll end up as Alola Exeggutor instead? (lol)
As I answered everywhere… I did it to create some debate. I’m sure that we might get at least 8 pokemon. but saying that we might get 8 will open to much the floodgates, and I wanted to prioritize the characters, selecting the essential ones.
I agree with you in the sense that the veterans represent important aspects of the franchise. and if it were on my hands, I would keep them all… this article don’t represent my own desires, but my opinions in order to shake some ideas and talk about other possibilities as Kanto is being a little over represented compared with other gens… and I said this as a genwuner myself =P
I also agree with your descriptions of the veterans.
And yeah I believe that a Starter triangle might be one of the best ways to represent the series besides Pikachu, but it’s hard to come with the pokemon that will please everyone =P, but Charizard-Greninja-Sceptile it’s my preferred option (until we get Rowlet final form… if the leak is real… Sceptile will have a hard time)
Yeah, gengar got a lot of points, but I believe that he isn’t really well suited for Smash (it is great for tekken)
“Alola Exeggutor confirmed as newcomer” = Internet hell XD
Finally for the Fire Emblem series…I haven’t played this game before, but am familiar with it just a little. Although it may not be popular in the West, its heavily popular in Japan as being the well received RPG game along with Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest. I don’t know the exact amount of slots for this series, but maybe up to 6 if possible.
I agree with Roy’s improvement to separate himself from being a Marth clone. Lucina’s case though is something that wonders me. It’s possible that she can be Marth’s gender pallet as how it was planned before, but if she decided to be improved from being another Marth clone, then I should recommend the movesets she used in Project X Zone 2. I think her bride form can be her new final smash. But sadly, I guess Chrom won’t have his chance since we’ll worry he’ll be another Marth clone…
I don’t know about other characters since I haven’t played the game before, but it’s odd that you didn’t add in Micaiah for this part. She may not have been popular enough, but I would think she could be different from Robin as she’s also a magician. Rather using a sword, she can only use magic using her book as her only weapon.
Sorry for this part being short than the others, I’m not fully familiar with FE characters here.
Yeah, Fire Emblem got back as a phoenix, and that’s amazing, I’m waiting for the same opportunities for other franchises. And the same as with pokemon, I’m sure that we will get 8 characters, but I put the 5 limit to explore the need of selecting and not just add characters so freely.
I think that Roy works more like Little Mac than Marth, even with them sharing a lot of moves, but it would be great to get different movesets. that was my idea for the article. Lucina in other hand works well as a “new player friendly” character, but still, there are other balanced character options to fill her role.
Yeah, smash needs more sorcerers/mages. I hope that the next fire emblem lords / avatars could fill those roles, as I think that for this franchise a “one character per game” could work well.
It’s all right, I had to study A LOT to make this article, I started my research last year, and still I missed a lot of obvious characters.
At first I thought these were gonna be your choices, but then I read a little further and saw that they were taken from a poll on this site, so I’m not gonna spend time debating choices. I will talk about each series and character here briefly though. Also, Mario, Zelda, Pokemon and Fire Emblem? One of these things is not like the others…
SUPER MARIO series:
– Waluigi I think would be pretty fun and wacky, but I think he needs to be given one consistent ability in the spin-offs he appears in.
– Paper Mario would be cool and stand out from the other Mario characters and I love the first game (haven’t played TTYR yet though) but I’m not too keen on having multiple Marios playable while other major characters are left out.
– Toad I used to feel would be pretty boring, but now that more exciting Mario characters have made it into Smash in the latest game, I’m fine with him being in. Captain Toad on the otherhand, not so much; having him over the Toad that’s been around for nearly 30 years seems ridiculous.
– Never played Super Mario RPG but I think Geno would be cool for his fans, especially since Sakurai recently confirmed that he actually considered him for Brawl. While he’d count as a Mario series character I’d treat him as a guest character in some ways too.
– Ashley is certainly a good choice for a Wario newcomer and could do some neat things with magic and hexes, but with WarioWare being pretty much the focus of everything Wario in Smash I’d rather the second Wario rep be from Wario Land, such as Captain Syrup.
– Daisy… nope, not interested. Out of the recurring Mario characters she’s basically the bottom of the barrel. To the garage heap with such an annoying character like her.
– Fawful would be pretty cool since he reps Mario & Luigi series and appears in multiple games, but I don’t think he’s likely when there hasn’t even been a trophy from a Mario & Luigi game in Smash, and I think main series characters should take priority.
– King Boo… nah, he’s more like boss fight material, plus he doesn’t really show up regularly.
– I really hate clones so I’d love for Dr. Mario to be decloned and I even thought of a unique Final Smash for him after the Brawl days, but him being in Smash has really soured my opinion on him and I’d rather Mario in doctor’s scrubs just be an alt costume since I find him really undeserving of being playable.
Overall, if I ranked them in order of who I think should get in first, it’d be: Toad > Waluigi > Paper Mario > Fawful > Geno > Ashley > Daisy > Captain Toad > King Boo > Dr. Mario
As for how I’d have the Mario roster if I was in charge of Smash? I’d have Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Bowser Jr. and Rosalina all return (but Junior would have a brand-new moveset involving the paintbrush and Rosalina would be retooled so that she’s less dependant on Luma), but cut Dr. Mario and make him Mario’s alternate costume. As for newcomers, I’d add Toad, since he’s a frequently recurring character who’s been around since the NES days. I think that would be enough since it’s all the heavy-hitters and I have to manage the rosters’ size and distribution, but in the case that there was room for one more I’d go with Waluigi. And for Yoshi and Wario sub-series, keep the titular characters of course, but Yoshi would remain the only rep for his sub-series, while Wario would be joined by Captain Syrup as a newcomer.
I wouldn’t give Bowser and Bowser Jr. their own symbols though. They don’t have a spin-off series so it seems really silly. And Waluigi shouldn’t have the Wario series symbol since he doesn’t appear in any Wario Land or Wario Ware games. It’d be like making Birdo count as a Yoshi character just because they’re paired together in the sports games.
Wew that’s a lot, I’m probably gonna have to make separate comments for the others, otherwise this will be too long to read.
Thanks for commenting. I like to read other people ideas and opinions, so it’s all right. even to disagree. I made this project to generate debates.
This first part was for the most represented franchises, and clearly, Mario, Zelda and Pokemon are in another league above Fire Emblem. but my idea was to pair Mario and Zelda as the flagships, and Pokemon and Fire Emblem as the franchises that are more exposed to suffer cuts (I even put pressure in that just giving them 5 spots despite I’m sure that they will get at least 7 or 8)
I agree with your opinions about the Super Mario options, but I didn’t choose them (well, I did put the top 10 limit) and I tried my best to present them all as viable options, it wasn’t hard tho, Super Mario characters gives the chance to explore a lot of different and fun archetypes.
Rosalina maybe could be less dependant of Luma, but it works nicely as a puppeteer character. and, yeah, Bowser Jr, needs his Brush, they could make a Ink/Paint mechanic and use it for Bowser Jr and the Inklings.
About the symbols, I didn’t mean to “separate them” as if they were separate groups, but because it would be cool to have special symbols for some of them, like the Bowser face silhouette for the Koopa Army: Bowser, Bowser jr, King Boo and even Kamek (even if he is more like a Yoshi Enemy at this point…and he didn’t appear on the list).
the same with the W symbol for Wario’s “friends” like Mona and Waluigi, even if he is a Mario spin off character.
In other Hand, IMO, birdo belongs under the Mario mushroom over a Yoshi symbol despite being paired with him in the spin off…
You’re welcome. I like discussing roster stuff.
I can see the reason behind it being listed with The Big Three based on what happened in Smash 4, I just haven’t gotten used to the idea that Fire Emblem is up there with them in terms of Smash representation.
I know you didn’t choose them, I know they’re from the poll on this site. Just wanted to have a quick say on each one. And indeed, there’s a lot of potential with some of these Mario characters. Both Rosalina and Bowser Jr. were very unique in Smash 4.
The Rosalina thing is more of a personal preference then anything. It’s mainly because I find some of her moveset lacking and I feel this is because they had to make some of her attacks simpler to balance having two fighters at once. Plus as a fan of Super Mario Galaxy I find it really out of character that Rosalina would use Lumas as soldiers in battle since he’s their mother figure.
I understand the logic behind the Bowser symbol I just disagree since Smash doesn’t do that with series symbols. Everything’s wrapped up within series and going out a giving groups of characters within said series their own symbol seems to go against. But that’s just what I prefer.
Nothing is better than talk this stuff, where no one has the truth but everyone has their own opinions =)
you are right about rosalina, is like throwing your siblings or sons into a battle with a dude with a weird hairdo and a huge sword.
I did it just for aesthetic reasons but you are right, series symbols don’t work like that… but they might.. no one knows, the same happen with the victory fanfares.
Okay, so next up we have Zelda…
THE LEGEND OF ZELDA series:
– Impa is probably my most wanted Zelda newcomer and she makes much more sense to have then Sheik at this point in Smash. She could use the Naginata from Hyrule Warriors, the Sheika Slate from Breath of the Wild, or even dark magic as a reference to how she was the Sage of Shadow in Ocarina of Time. I agree that the Sheik clone option is invalid.
– Tetra is good character in her game but I honestly feel she isn’t really Smash material. I don’t think she’d really add that much and I think if there was to be any female pirate in Smash it’s Captain Syrup, since she’d rep a (sub)series with less characters. Plus with Zelda and Sheik we’ve already got two versions of Zelda in Smash already.
– Skull Kid is a fan favourite and you could do some fun stuff with such a creepy and mischievous character but he’s a one-off villain so he’s not really relevant, even taking the 3DS remake of Majora’s Mask into account.
– Midna is another fan-favourite and there’s a lot of potential with the hair and Twili magic, but sadly, like Skull Kid, she is another one-off character and so again isn’t really relevant.
– I’m all for Young Link being decloned and the masks are certainly a good way to do it, but I always felt it was odd that he’d be fully MM and not have anything in his moveset to acknowledge OoT, his debut game, but I guess it would be hard to implement both. Also I don’t like the idea of three Links being in Smash, so I’d rather have a decloned Toon Link get in over him.
– Vaati is another fan-favourite, but fortunately, unlike other non-Ganon Zelda villains, he isn’t a one-off character and appeared in three Zelda games. I haven’t really played those games but he seems like a cool choice and there isn’t really a wind-based character in Smash and he would also serve as a villain for Toon Link so he isn’t the odd one out of the Zelda reps.
– Ghirahim… I’m not really fussed on. I know he can do some cool stuff but he primarily use his sword and is yet another one-off villain. Like Zant in the Brawl days, most of his demand for Smash comes from being recent, and he’s not recent anymore.
– I really, really don’t want Lana (or any Hyrule Warriors original) since I don’t like the idea of Tecmo spin-off OCs getting in Smash over “official” (for lack of a better term) Zelda characters. But I’ll be fair and acknowledge using the book to summon magic blocks would be cool.
– Tingle is recurring Zelda character and even has his own spin-off games, I’d say he’s very deserving of being in Smash and could be a fun wacky character with his balloons and whatnot.
– Ravio is another one-off, but the rod idea sounds interesting. Although based on what I’ve heard him fighting goes against part of his character in his own game.
So overall, in order of who I’d want, I’d rank them: Impa > Tingle > Vaati > Midna > Skull Kid > Masked Young Link > Ravio > Ghirahim > Tetra > Lana
My Zelda roster in Smash would be Link, Zelda, Ganondorf, Impa and Toon Link. As for Sheik, she’s a one-off character and isn’t really relevant to the series anymore, so I’d either make her tied to Zelda as a transformation again, or cut her entirely. I know Zelda deserves at least six but I’d revamp Ganondorf and Toon Link’s movesets entirely, and if you take that into account while adding Impa it’s basically adding three new fighters workload-wise. If I had room for a six I’d add Tingle though.
Also, while I said before in my comment about the Mario characters that I don’t like the idea of giving different symbols to certain characters, I thought it was pretty clever how you gave Ravio an upside-down Triforce.
I agree with what you said about Impa and Vaati, they are one of the few characters that have appear in different games, so they have more chances, but a lot of characters get more fans because of their novelty, but I have to admit that Skull kid/Majora’s Mask and Ravio have grown on me more than Ghirahim and Midna…
Also, I would prefer to get a revamped Ganondorf and T. Link over more characters, but I hope that Zelda get back to his place as the second bigger franchise in Smash.
Well this one’s gonna be a bit different, since most of the characters on this one are veterans. So mostly it’ll be my opinion on Pokemon that are already in Smash. I never really thought about it before until this article, but yeah, most of Pokemon reps do have uncertain futures in Smash.
POKEMON series:
– Controversial Opinion: I’m in favour of Jigglypuff being cut. She’s completely irrelevant to Pokemon for years now (even being Fairy now doesn’t mean much, since Sylveon was used to advertise that) and only gets in Smash now because she was in the first game. It’s not for more popular and relevant Pokemon that have huge demand miss out; hell, it’s not fair she gets in over Mewtwo twice. She’s also adding to unnecessary extra Gen 1 representation.
– Mewtwo is the most iconic Legendary Pokemon and also works as a villain. He was the only bad cut in Brawl and should have never been cut at all. I agree that his moveset should be revamped and drop those lackluster special moves.
– Charizard is certainly iconic and important enough to be his own character, but I found him pretty lacking in Smash 4 and would prefer him be part of Pokemon Trainer’s team again.
– Lucario is practically Pokemon’s second-mascot, he is marketed a lot in games, anime and merchandise, so I think he’s pretty safe. I think he should return as he is the mascot of Gen 4 (thus ensuring representation outside of Gen 1) and is a memorable more-recent Pokemon.
– Greninja is part of a starter line so that helps him stand out as a bit more important than a lot of Pokemon, plus he reps Gen 6, so more representation of post-Gen 1 games. He has a moveset that is quite different from other Pokemon and with Squirtle gone it’s good that there’s still a Pokemon to represent Water types. He’s pretty popular at the moment too.
– Pokemon Trainer was my main in Brawl and I was felt very down when I saw Charizard confirmed by himself in the Greninja trailer. Despite some people saying only Charizard is worthy of being playable on his own merits, I find this wrong; Squirtle is one of the original starters which makes him very important and iconic to the series. Ivysaur’s really the only one on the team who wouldn’t be playable on his own, but he fits in well with the starter trio and all three stages of evolution themes that Trainer’s team has going, plus is an unusual sort of choice for a fighter. I don’t think there needs to be any mechanics to force you to change like PP, because that will make him less fun to play. Also Pokemon Trainer represents the actual gameplay of Pokemon and how Trainers command Pokemon in battle. I’d like him to return.
And that takes us to the newcomers…
– Sceptile’s demand for Smash I’ve always felt was ingenuine. It felt like a lot of people only wanted him in for the sake of completing the final evolution starter trio. Plus Grovyle was always the one of his evolution line that was actually popular. I feel the demand in Smash is what led to him being in Pokken, and think it’s fine he got in that instead. I really don’t want him in Smash and there’s another Gen 3 starter I’d prefer.
– Gengar is cool and was always a popular Pokemon, plus his trickster nature and being a Ghost type would offer some unique moveset options, but I don’t think he’s really necessary and would be more Gen 1 representation. Make him a Poke Ball Pokemon.
– Blaziken is long overdue and is one of my most wanted characters for Smash. Gen 3 has been completely skipped over in Smash and hasn’t received a playable character (or a stage for that matter) so he’d be a warranted addition. He’s popular (the fact that he was the only Gen 3 starter to get a Mega Evolution in X and Y speaks volumes), he’s been demanded for a long time, and he’d have pretty sweet kickboxing fighting style. I want him in.
– I kind of find the idea of Red doing the fighting himself a bit silly. I mean if he took on an entire criminal organisation using Pokemon why would he resort to doing the actual fighting himself in Smash? I think letting Red stand back and command Pokemon is more in-character of him. I have had ideas of human Pokemon characters for Smash that used the idea of having Pokemon assist for specials, but they were a bit more fitting (Ghetsis with his staff).
– A latest generation Pokemon is inevitable for Smash, in fact, Sakurai said he set a slot aside for a Gen 6 Pokemon in Smash 4. Based on what we know of Gen 7 and the supposed leaks if there was a Gen 7 Pokemon playable it would probably be Rowlet’s final evolution, which would be cool, especially if the archer aspect is used for more than one move. But depending on when Smash 5 happens it might be too late for Gen 7. Gen 3 was too early for Brawl and Gen 5 was too early for Smash 4. Remember how a lot of people thought Zoroark was a shoo-in?
So which Pokemon (and human) here would I prefer be in first? I’d prefer: Pokemon Trainer > Blaziken > Mewtwo (if changed) > Lucario > 7th Gen Pokemon (if Rowlet’s final evo) > Greninja > Gengar > Charizard > Sceptile > Red > Jigglypuff
And all that said, what would be my Pokemon roster in Smash? It’d be Pikachu, Pokemon Trainer (but a different team), Mewtwo, Blaziken, Lucario and Greninja. Mewtwo would be now a heavyweight (but still has floaty jumps) and have a bunch of new moves emphasising his power, and Pokemon Trainer would ditch the elemental weakness mechanic and have a different team consisting of Totodile, Grovyle and Charizard. The new team keeps the starter trio and three stages of evolution themes of the old team (as well as keeping an old member) but now represents three different generations at once, acknowledges Grovyle’s popularity and brings back representation for Gen 2. Overall I think I did a pretty good job with a selection that represents five different generations of Pokemon (out of seven, which isn’t bad considering the most Smash has ever repped at once is three). I didn’t set a spot aside for a Gen 7 Pokemon but that’s because I want to wait and see if there’s any I’m interested in when the game comes out instead of assigning a spot to a game that isn’t even out yet. To be honest, I wish they’d stop making new generations (of species, I know it’s ridiculous to expect no new games) since an overwhelming amount of Pokemon from Gen 7 have designs that irk me and there’s already over 700 of them now, and with each new generation it just gets harder to represent a wide variety of them in Smash.
I agree with the idea of getting a revamped Pokemon Trainer with different Pokemon (maybe keeping Charizard as the Gen 1), but I wish to fight as red with pokemon as some normals and specials, having 3 different customs for every special, one for squirtle, other for Ivysaur and other for Charizard…or maybe other Pokemon, like Lapras, Espeon or Snorlax, like Red team from gen 2… but that is a stretch =P
Rowlet final evo has becoming the most hyped character that we don’t know yet, but if the leak is real, I hope to get him in Smash to complete the trio with Charizard as the favorite from Gen 1, Greninja as the Pokemon that won the Kalos League (Damn it Ash DO IT!).
Yeah, I believe that Pokemon will hit a stop with 800 or 900 pokemon, and then get more “Regional” forms for them… and maybe including some new legendaries… but if things go in the way that Lockstin from Gnoggin is predicting, I won’t be mad at all.
Hey sorry for the super-late reply, but I wanted to read all the comments here first, and I’d been procrastinating to even do that for a while. I won’t reply to your comment about my Zelda opinions because I don’t really disagree or have anything more to add on that subject.
It’s fine that you want to see Red as his own fighter, I just miss Pokemon Trainer since he was my main in Brawl.
What’s this thing you’re referring to with Lockstin’s prediction?
And lastly for this article, the Fire Emblem characters. I really find it hard to believe that Pokemon would only have one safe character, but FE would have four. I think Robin and Corrin are on shaky ground due to their games being recent. They could easily be shunted aside for whatever new FE game is recent by the next Smash game.
FIRE EMBLEM series:
– Roy being in Smash in the first place caused a headache. He was a clone and was only added to advertise an upcoming Fire Emblem game and didn’t get in on his own merits, and when his game came out he turned out to be one of the most unpopular lords in the Fire Emblem fandom. And yet despite that, because of his fanbase which is mostly from Smash and not FE, and comes back in Smash 4 as DLC, and he’s still a clone. Clone DLC? Disgusting. Even if he was decloned, the fact that he’s unpopular and is a one-off lord should keep him out.
– Lucina was a sign of worse to come in Smash 4, kicking off the Fire Emblem overrepresentation (also overrepping a single FE game) and indicating more lazy clones were to come (and I was right, Dark Pit and Dr Mario soon followed). She shouldn’t have even been a clone because despite disguising herself as Marth her fitting style is pointed out to be the same as Chrom’s, and Chrom does not fight like Marth. She’s also a pretty bland character personality-wise and wouldn’t add much even if she was decloned. Robin was sufficient representation of Awakening, a second character was unnecessary.
– Anna has appeared in plenty of FE titles (although she isn’t the exact same person in all of them, it’s like a Nurse Joy/Officer Jenny situation) but in most of them her role is kinda small (she was never playable before Awakening), and even then she was an optional unit. I dunno, she feels rather minor to me.
– Back in the pre-release days of Smash 4, I actually had an idea for Tiki as a newcomer. I would have taken some liberties and gave her the ability to only partially transform, so she’d do stuff like have her arms turn into dragon arms and do claw attacks or grow dragon wings for her recovery. But then Corrin happened he does just that, so she’d be basically redundant now since the idea wouldn’t be anywhere near as unique. She has appeared in the most FE games (Anna may have more, but they aren’t the same Anna), even more than Marth, so she definitely is important enough to warrant being playable.
– Lyn is very popular (enough to be acknowledged as an AT despite no-one from her game being playable) but she’d be another sword-user (I know there’s no katana-wielders, but I’d rather that position go to Takamaru) and she’s a one-off so she’s pretty irrelevant and it’d be hypocritical of me to support her despite this when I said Roy was irrelevant so I won’t.
– Hector would represent axes which would be great for finally acknowledging another part of the weapon triangle but like Lyn he’s another one-off and I feel in some ways he might be similar to Ike.
– I was strongly against Chrom back before we knew who the FE newcomer would be in Smash 4, and with good reason, he’s very bland both in personality and moveset potential and wanted Robin in over him (and Sakurai thought so too, shame he went hypocritical and put in Lucina). One character from Awakening is enough. No more blue-haired sword lords.
– Ephraim, like Hector, represents another neglected part of the weapon triangle with lances, and we don’t have anyone in Smash who uses a spear or polearm weapon. But again, like Hector, he is a one-off character.
– There’s inevitably gonna be a new lord as a newcomer, look at the pattern in Smash of every newcomer besides Marth: Roy was the most recent lord by Melee, Ike was the most recent lord by Brawl, and Robin and Lucina were the most recent protagonists by Smash 4, and then the DLC went with an even newer lord. With this in mind I think any old FE character that isn’t in more than one FE game and whose game wasn’t the latest one by the time the new Smash comes out doesn’t stand a chance of getting in. Sadly, it seems Fire Emblem is more interested in advertising new games then looking through its history.
To be honest, unlike The Big Three, I barely know much about Fire Emblem (only game I’ve played is Awakening), so I don’t really have much affinity or strong desires for most of these characters, but if was to list which order I wanted them to get in, it would be: Tiki > Hector > Ephraim > Lyn > New Lord > Anna > Roy > Chrom > Lucina
So taking all this into account, what would my Fire Emblem roster be? Marth, Ike, and Robin. That’s all. I was absolutely disgusted by the Fire Emblem overrepresentation in Smash 4. More characters than Zelda and just as many as Pokemon? Holy moly, ease up Nintendo. Three is enough for FE until it gets a few more games. Then it can have a fourth. Cut Roy because he’s a clone, a one-off and isn’t even popular amongst FE fans, cut Lucina for being a clone and unnecessary Awakening representation, and cut Corrin for being nothing but pure advertisement. You gotta keep Marth since he’s the first protagonist of the series and appeared in multiple games instead of being a one-off (two games, four if you count the remakes), Ike is the only lord besides Marth to be the star of more than one FE game so he deserves his spot (I’d drop his counter special and give him his shockwave move), and Robin… well, to be honest I don’t really know who to go with for the third spot since there’s a lot of one-offs so I’d just keep him for now simply for his uniqueness. I’d revamp him though so instead of each of his specials being tomes he can change which tome he currently uses with his down special, which I feel would justify the durability mechanic a bit more. Maybe Tiki instead but Corrin has taken what would have made her unique. There’s also Leif who was playable in two games but as far as I know he’s yet another swordsman. Long story short, Fire Emblem isn’t an easy one to choose characters for.
And that’s it for Part 1. Wew, what a doozy. I think the next ones will be easier to get through since there’s less options. Thanks for going to all this effort; it’s a fun exercise.
Those have been great comments, I’m glad that my humble article has gotten that much attention.
Yes, Roy isn’t a fan favorite among FE fans… maybe corrin will suffer a similar fate because of his over exposure in smash (I’m already don’t like him/her, but it works nicely as an unique Smash character, unlike Roy and Lucina)
I agree that some of those characters of the list have the problem of being “one off” but I believe that Anna and Tiki have the chance to get into smash thanks to their iconic appearances Anna using varied weapons and Tiki magic inclined dragon moves, unlike Corrin that use more physical moves.
but yeah, this franchise, like Pokemon, having that huge amount of eligible characters make the decision to choose representatives really hard.
It’s good things have worked out for you. I’ll be sure to finish what I started and comment on the next three, which I’ve been putting off for a while since there’s so much to read.
Agreed. It’s definitely difficult to choose for series like Pokemon and Fire Emblem. I don’t think Anna and Tiki are really that likely, especially when they couldn’t even at least be trophies in the Wii U version (both are in the 3DS version but only due to model-importing). It would help if Intelligent Systems actually made another Lord who appeared in more than one game or made a new sequel to one of their earlier games.
By the way, I noticed you never updated the links at the top so they could lead to the later articles in this series. Might want to fix that.
Mewtwo and Roy were poplular enough to be made DLC in Smash 4. There is no way they would be cit unless they really want to diss the fans.