The Definitive Unused Fighters List in Smash

Please look at the updated version of the list here: http://sourcegaming.info/2016/04/29/duflupdate/

 

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PushDustIn

Founder at Source Gaming
PushDustIn is the founder and administrator of Source Gaming. Being obsessed with the history and development of games isn’t easy. Building a reputation on his research, translations and article write ups, PushDustIn fully encapsulates the meaning of data-miner. PushDustIn has studied Japanese for over six years, and has lived there for over four. The name PushDustIn comes from a garbage can in Osaka (Push Dust In). He lives with a very spoiled cat named Kuma.

Mains: Yoshi (64), Game and Watch (Melee), Wario (Brawl), Wario/Pac-Man (Smash for 3DS/Wii U)
PushDustIn
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48 comments

  1. One nitpick: I think you got one even backwards. You say that Ice Climbers were scrapped because of 8-Player Smash, but I think it’s more likely that 8-Player Smash was added only after they had decided to cut the Ice Climbers. Sakurai mentioned that they had no trouble getting the IC to work on the Wii U, and that it was the 3DS that was the constraining factor. Once they figured that they IC had to go for the sake of the 3DS version, the developers wanted to figure out what sort of things they could do with the “freed” processing power. 8 Player Smash is what they come up with. Mind you, that is merely my speculation, but I think it is plausible.

    Other than that, this is probably the best rundown about scrapped Smash plans I’ve ever seen.

    1. That is definitely possible. I think with the way that Sakurai talked about Ice Climbers in the interviews, it seemed he had already made up his mind to cut them. I found some references to them in the data, but very minor (Trophy categories being the biggest). They didn’t even have an emblem reference. 8-Player Smash has been something that Sakurai has wanted to add since Smash 64 (See Page 10 translation). I believe it was mentioned in the Melee polls too.

      Semi-related: Frostwraith at SmashBoards has speculated that custom moves and the lack of transformations are also possibly connected.

      Thanks for your comment. I’m glad that you enjoyed the article.

      1. The one issue I have with this line of thought is that is doesn’t quite fit with the extra large stages that seem to be included mostly for 8 player Smash. Palutena’s Temple and Great Cave Offensive obviously had a lot of work put into them and are not last minute additions. If 8 player Smash was only added after Ice Climbers were cut, than why do these two stages exist?

    1. PushDustIn was referring to the results from the Brawl polls which was, in fact, a different web site.

  2. There was that one interview in either Famitsu or Nintendo Power where it talked about the ‘assist capsules’ in Melee where the example Sakurai gave was the birds from Duck Hunt would come out and interfere with the fighters. Also Ditto in Melee as a Pokeball Pokemon. It has animations and everything.

  3. Does this add up at all to your research?

    “Early on, Nintendo asked SEGA if Sonic could be included in the game, but the Haneda company refused. It was only later, when the development of Super Smash Bros. Brawl was nearly finished, that SEGA changed its mind. This is why the game’s release was delayed.”

    I got it out of The History of Sonic the Hedgehog. I guess its possible they changed their minds between Melee and Brawl?

    1. I was able to find the interview scan on an archive website. I was able to read the whole magazine, so the interview does exist. This is contradicting information though. Is the History of Sonic the Hedgehog a book? Can you email me a scan or let me know the page number? I use Gmail!

  4. Have you found anything on this bit? It’s a excerpt from SSBwiki’s Clone page, Trivia section:
    “Sakurai also originally planned including Leif, the protagonist of Fire Emblem: Thracia 776, the most recently released Fire Emblem games at the time, as a clone of Marth in Melee. But when Sakurai went to Intelligent Systems for approval, they gave him an early look at the in-development Fire Emblem: The Binding Blade, where Sakurai then found its protagonist, Roy, to provide a greater contrast to Marth with his fire properties and thus chose him instead, similar to why Falco was chosen over Wolf.”

    1. Doing a quick search on all the Melee/ 64 reader response emails, there was no mention of Leif (リーフ). The source of the Leif apparently is the same guy that claimed that Wolf was considered for Melee. Leif did appear on the Smash 2 poll, but was the least popular Fire Emblem character (https://sourcegaming.wordpress.com/2015/03/23/if-there-were-a-smash-2-poll/).

      On Roy’s Melee Character Page (http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/software/nus_p_nalj/smash/flash/0115/index.html) it says compared to Marth, Roy is a younger, inexperienced swordsman. But you can see his potential.

      Doing a quick Google search on Leif in DX in Japanese doesn’t turn up anything of substance either.

      1. The original source for that appears to be Chronobound from Smashboards, who claims he found it in his research. Chronobound is an absolute obsessive Smash fan who I think the community is a little too trusting of. He seems to have little to no Japanese skills, and yet he is considered an authority on what Japanese fans think.

        1. Do you have a link to Chronobounds original post? I want to compare it to see if it’s the same post as the Neogaf guy.

    1. Thanks! I actually need to update this today.

      Crane043 has been working on translating this article into Japanese, and discovered that my comments about Toad/ Saki wasn’t totally correct. Plus with all the new information on Smash 4, I need to do a major edit. Give me two hours (lunch and edit time)!

    1. Yeah, we translated the article that they were planned (http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/07/04/english-smash4-project-proposal-slides/). However, I personally do not believe the evidence that Red has shown is actually conclusive evidence that they made it far into development.

      For example, Mario’s 4th custom move in the video is an “ice Fireball”. We know from the Project Proposal Slides that Mario’s 4th custom was actually a “Double Fireball”. Furthermore, the 4th custom that Red shows are very similar to the “Unused Custom” (heavy quote marks) for the DLC characters. Just like the DLC characters’ “custom move”, I believe the content that Red is showing is more akin to a glitch, than scrapped content.

      I have literally found nothing in the Wii U data dumps to suggest that 4th customs made it past the idea stage. Until more evidence can be found, I’m refraining from say they were actually implemented.

    1. Very different from the Ice Climbers. Nana is essentially another player. In Melee and Brawl, she actually had her own fighter files too. Luma doesn’t have enough AI/ details to be considered another player.

    1. Toon Zelda/ Toon Sheik are obvious from their filenames. However, it’s unknown whether Toon Sheik was actually Tetra or not. It is highly likely that this is the case, as Toon Link’s design was inspired from Wind Waker and Tetra was made to be Wind Waker’s Sheik. Despite this, it is not 100% confirmed as Sakurai has never talked about this character.

  5. Shouldn’t Krystal be in the considered list for brawl ? Cause of the whole she only didn’t make it for being too unique and time constraints..? O.o

    1. Sakurai doesn’t explicitly state that Krystal wasn’t considered. If I add her, then I would need to add Waddle Dee, Dry Bones and Baby Peach. Just that Wolf was easier to create due to the time constraints.

      From: http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/08/17/sakuraibrawlquestions/

      Sakurai: It’s not that I don’t understand how that feels, but if you start saying that, it becomes “Why isn’t Waddle Dee playable?” or Dry Bones, or Baby Peach. There’d be no end to it.

  6. This is one of the best articles on the site, but I gotta say…

    I don’t think it’s likely that Toon Sheik was supposed to be Tetra, let alone “highly likely” as put in this article. If it were meant to be Tetra, I’m quite certain the filename would reflect that. Tetra can be considered the Wind Waker equivalent of Sheik, but she’s not Sheik.

    Furthermore, an original design for a Twilight Princess version of Sheik was created for Brawl. There’s no reason to think that they couldn’t have done the same for a Wind Waker version of Sheik.

    All in all, Toon Sheik was more likely to be exactly what was said in the files, and the chance of it being Tetra are basically 0.

    1. The twilight Princess version of Shiek wasn’t made for Brawl, it came from Twilight Princess concept art.

  7. Something else you guys forgot to mention is a file in Brawl’s data called “mariod” which might be the team’s second attempt at making Dr. Mario a fighter.

    1. I’m conflicted on this, and I even brought it up to the fine folks on TCRF Wiki. There hasn’t been a consensus on this and since the data for mariod is so little it’s very difficult to know if it was just a “debug Mario” (which is the theory) or Doctor Mario. Personally, I lean towards a second Doctor Mario as mariod is how Doctor Mario is referred to in Smash for Wii U and 3DS. I guess I should add all that information into the list though!

      I really want to recreate this whole post. Parts of it really need to be cleaned up and all the sources has been translated into English but SutaMen. Also, I’ve improved my writing since I wrote this and can just create a better post. That’ll be my next project after I finish this current one 🙂

      1. What I want to know is why they would ned to make a debug version of a character when they could just use that character anyway. As for why they couldn’t use the already existing Dr. Mario data, its entirely possible that they may have deleted it along with the rest of thr forbidden seven. I guess Jigglypuff and Toon Link were luckier than we thought.

  8. Also, [“Didn’t appear as a fighter” indicates he was probably considered]… highly debatable. Shrek didn’t appear as a fighter, so he was probably considered.

    Your ruling on Geno in both games is way too generous imo.

    1. When I recreate this list, I’m actually adding a new category for Sonic / Snake in Melee and for Geno. I think the current classification system is a disservice for those instances.

    2. I second this.

      Sakurai’s comments about him regarding Brawl basically boiled down to “I wanted it to happen but it couldn’t”. “Planned” suggests he was on the roster at some point; all we know is that Sakurai would’ve done it if he could.

      He should be under “Considered” for Brawl and not listed at all for SSB4.

          1. No, I hadn’t seen it, thanks for bringing it to my attention.

            I think this categorization is much more fitting for him.

  9. Wario’s Finger Lags in His Bike Pose in 8 Player Smash
    But In Normal Mode it has Smoot Transactions

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