Straight from the Source: ginolabo (SOULVARS)

Solo developer Gino talks about the 3 years spent building his first game at 40, drawing pixel art in the bathtub, and making classic JRPG elements work in a modern package. Enjoy it!

Note: This interview was originally recorded by Brando in Japanese on September 16, 2022 at Tokyo Game Show. It has been translated into English and edited for clarity. Thanks to John Davis and Shueisha Games for facilitating.

——We’re here at Tokyo Game Show 2022 with the creator of deck-building JRPG SOULVARS. Gino-san, could you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about this game?

Gino: Hi, I’m Gino from ginolabo, the developer of SOULVARS, which was released on iOS and Android earlier this year, and is soon being ported to consoles and PC. SOULVARS is a traditional turn-based RPG with deck-building elements and deep, strategic combat. Players have also praised the pixel art animations and the music. This is actually the first game I’ve ever worked on. It took about 3 years, and I’m really glad that people are enjoying it.

——(Looking at the game onscreen) Wow, you made all of this as your first game?

Gino: I did receive some help with testing and debugging, and porting now that the game is coming to other platforms, and I purchased some royalty-free music to use for the soundtrack. All of the other main components, like graphics and programming and things like that were done by me.

——What made you want to create this game?

Gino: One reason is because I wanted to play an authentic role-playing game on my phone. Smartphone games are currently dominated by these “social games” and casual games you can play in small chunks, and many people who want to play traditional, deeper RPGs are busy with work, family, and other responsibilities. They may not have time to relax in front of the TV at home and play those full-fledged titles. Some people can make time, but many can’t. I’m one of those people.

I realized there’s probably a lot of others out there like me, and after release, I did find that to be true. Many players have said they prefer playing “real” games like this more than other, “lighter” mobile games with gacha mechanics and microtransactions.

Another reason is that I like pixel art, and I’m a big fan of the old RPGs that use that style, like Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest. I wanted to draw that kind of art myself, make it move and create that sort of game with it.

——I see. When somebody says “mobile gaming”, that is the image that comes to mind: mostly casual games with gacha and microtransactions… So SOULVARS has none of that?

Gino: Right. I think there’s too many of those games now, to the point where they’re defining the platform, like “Oh, that’s all mobile gaming is”, and only console and PC games get recognized as “real” games. But I think it’s entirely possible to make real games for smartphones, and I’d even say that there are experiences which are only made possible by that sort of interface. I’d like to continue exploring those kinds of experiences.

——I played the SOULVARS console demo yesterday, and my first impression was, “Wow, that’s a lot of information onscreen, was that really on a smartphone screen originally?”

Gino: It is a lot of information to take in right at the start. An experienced game maker might have done that part better, but I was a total beginner so I just put in whatever I wanted to. (Laughs)

That’s one of the things we’re improving for the console port of the game. We’re taking care so that players can learn how to play the game at a gentler pace.

——Are there any games you took inspiration from or referenced when making SOULVARS?

Gino: I really like the classic Final Fantasy games, so SOULVARS has a similar style and does some similar things, like presenting the action from a side view during battles. But SOULVARS is originally a smartphone game, so changes were made to fit that interface, like simply tapping where you want to go instead of moving across the map tile by tile. The original game was made to be playable in portrait mode with one hand, so for the console version we’ve come up with some other UI changes.

Also, speaking of smartphones, earlier I criticized those kinds of social games, but I did study them from a UI standpoint. I got hints from them about what kind of fundamental interactions work well, and how to incorporate those into an RPG.

——Right, there are probably some design principles that are universal. So the smartphone version has been out for some time now, how has the response been? Have you made changes in response to player feedback?

Gino: Yes, since the game’s release in January I’ve been listening to players’ requests and releasing updates to improve the game. I’m sure there are still some rough edges, which a more experienced developer could have seen from the start. But I really was just starting out, and I could only see things from my own perspective. Even if I’m used to how the game works, the player isn’t, so I’ve been reading reviews and rethinking design decisions in response.

——From the creator’s side, if you’ve been constantly spending time with this thing for years, you become unable to see it with fresh eyes.

Gino: Right. Regarding enemy difficulty, for example, at first I actually did the math such that the player had to pick the optimal action at each opportunity. That’s how difficult it was at one point, but later I adjusted it so that you could pick other options or make a couple mistakes and still be ok.

Another thing I remembered being fun in classic RPGs was rare drops, those items you have a tiny percent chance of receiving when you beat an enemy. I really like those, because they have value to match their rarity, and it feels good to finally get this precious item. But of course, this means you need to actually fight the enemy one hundred or two hundred times. (Laughs)

I originally wanted to make those drops extremely rare, but that doesn’t feel great moment to moment, and after all this is a smartphone game for busy people so I decided to increase the drop rate. I also increased the speed at which your character levels up. Personally, I want players to be able to enjoy the game for as long as possible — it’s not a social game where you can spend tons of money, it’s a one-time purchase for 610 yen that you can enjoy for a long time. That’s what I wanted to make, so I thought it’s fine if you level up slowly, and you don’t need to raise everything to max level.

But actually, there’s a lot of RPG players who want to max everything out! They want to get all the skills to 100%, collect all the items and do everything. That’s not how I personally play games so I didn’t consider that. I’m the type that will continue on even if I miss an item, or if a character dies, like in Fire Emblem. But when reading reviews, I saw that some players enjoy that playstyle so I am adjusting the game to be easier to 100% complete, increasing the level-up speed and other quality-of-life improvements like that.

This also applies to game maps. Older RPGs often didn’t have any dungeon map or minimap or anything, so back then you had to draw your own maps. For famous games you could buy the strategy guide, or search online or in magazines, but for minor releases which didn’t have that information available, players had to draw maps by hand. (Laughs)

Times have changed, and I thought there’s no reason to make players do that these days, so an update was released a couple weeks ago that includes a world map for the game. That’s around the time I felt like the game had become really smooth to play. The quality had really improved with all the updates, so SOULVARS version “1.0” was finally released — all the releases before that had “zero-point-something” version numbers.

——I’d like to ask about the development process of the game. What tools did you use to build it?

Gino: I used the Unity engine. I previously worked as a software engineer in other industries, so I was familiar with some areas like programming, UI, and data input and output. But, I had no experience in other areas like animation, effects, and processing multiple things in real-time, so I learned those from square one. Unity provides a lot of support, so I was eventually able to work things out.

I also used some assets other people made, for the pixelated font and the music. I searched around and bought an album’s worth of royalty-free songs for about 4000 or 5000 yen. There’s a lot of free assets out there nowadays, but I found the quality of the paid assets to be on a totally different level. The creators of those songs and font are in the game credits, as well as everyone who helped me with testing.

I actually used a smartphone app to draw pixel art dot by dot with my finger, in a tool called EDGE touch. That’s probably a rare development practice. I think most people use a computer and tools like Aseprite. I’m doing game development full-time now, but before when I was working a different job, I could use EDGE touch to draw in my spare time. If you’ve got a tool like this, you can work on it anytime, anywhere, right? I was making pixel art during my daily commute, in the bath… (Laughs)

——Three years seems like a long time to spend on your first project. Is there any advice you could offer to other aspiring game creators? Some lessons you learned during that time?

Gino: I’m not sure if my development style will be a helpful reference for others… Usually for indie game makers it’s recommended to take smaller steps, finish smaller games and work your way up to larger projects, right? But I’m over 40, so taking on the challenge at this age, I don’t really have time to “warm up” like that. Since my time is limited I jumped straight into making a full-fledged game, but I think it’s good if you can start with smaller projects.

On the other hand, some previous work experience did come in handy. I worked as an engineer and had experience planning projects, so it was easier to make a plan for myself that I could stick to. Even if you think you’re starting from “zero”, you can use your other experience as a foothold and figure out a working style that suits you.

——Any final message for overseas fans?

Gino: SOULVARS is already released with an English translation, but it’s not so well known so I’d like to appeal to the English-speaking audience…what should I do? (Laughs)

The English version of SOULVARS is available on iOS and Android and players are receiving it well (average review score 4.7 on the App Store and 4.8 on Google Play Store at time of writing). It will come out on PC (via Steam) and consoles in 2023. If you’re looking for a JRPG with deep, tactical combat and plenty of volume (15-20 hours of playtime, +50 to go deeper) in a modern, convenient package, then please check it out!