NOTE: This is an opinion article. You are allowed to disagree. This was written by PushDustIn and does not reflect the opinion of the entire Source Gaming staff.
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As soon as I saw the members of the Hoshido clan on the screen, my heart dropped. I knew that somehow another Fire Emblem character had made their way into battle. It was revealed that Corrin, the protagonist from Fire Emblem: Fates, was chosen as one of the final three characters in Smash. I would like to talk about the salt from their inclusion, my personal feelings, and lessons learned from this experience. Before we begin, I’m not trying to “rain on anyone’s parade.” I don’t think Corrin is a bad choice. I just don’t know if they’re the best. So if you are happy about Corrin’s inclusion, I’m happy for you.
Corrin’s inclusion is controversial (as evidenced by this title!). There is a huge divide between how they have been received within the Smash speculation community. The only other character that has been THIS dividing was Dark Pit in the base roster of Smash for Wii U/3DS. In Corrin’s case, the controversy exists because of three main reasons. First, people feel they took another “ballot slot” even when Corrin wasn’t that heavily requested. Second, it’s another Fire Emblem character. Third, people are upset their ballot choice wasn’t chosen. In my mind these are all perfectly valid reasons to be upset — and a part of the reason why I’m personally not particularly excited for Corrin’s inclusion.
So, Corrin was not heavily requested. While I have long argued online polling was never going to be accurate, Sakurai not mentioning Corrin’s popularity implies they weren’t a heavily requested character. Sakurai confirmed Corrin was decided in order to represent an upcoming game (the Japanese translation can be found at the bottom*), and selected for their unique abilities. So Corrin’s decision did not rest upon any explicit popularity, and it’s possible Corrin was decided as early as April (before Fates was released in Japan). Smash characters take a long time to develop. The proof is the fact that we have only three new characters since the Smash Ballot officially began, as Roy, Ryu and Lucas were in development beforehand.
Corrin is an example of Sakurai “boxing himself when it comes to character choices,” and it’s the same exact reason why Wolf was not a shoo-in, as Lucas was very clearly chosen as “the cut Brawl veteran.” This is purely based on how Sakurai has introduced every fighter, and may not be the way Sakurai has chosen these characters. Since DLC was limited, it makes sense to try to optimize it by selecting the overall fan favorite, the best cut Brawl fighter, the best cut Melee fighter, the best third-party rep, the best Final Fantasy rep, the best upcoming game rep—and lastly, the most realizable character from the Smash Ballot. However, by deciding the DLC one by one, in my opinion, Sakurai trapped himself and neglected the overall picture. I do feel in a lot of ways the choices individually make total sense.
If you are not a fan of RPGs, like I am, then a lot of characters on the DLC list probably didn’t appeal to you—or at the very least the potential for disappointment is there. This is only including characters. I do feel Sakurai tried to balance it with additional representation to other series via stages and costumes. However, characters definitely have the most weight behind them and generate the most buzz. I do feel the series balance for Fire Emblem has finally tipped the scales. Sakurai himself was concerned about this, but felt Corrin’s unique attributes were extremely favorable to their inclusion. Sakurai has stated in the GDC 2008 presentation that series balance was an important part of consideration, so I’m sure the decision was not made lightly.
The last reason most people are upset is because “their choice” wasn’t chosen. I’ve long predicted that “There will be salt,” so this kind of reaction is not surprising. This was bound to happen because people hyped up what the Smash Ballot meant, and what would happen from it. I do wish I had spread more awareness about the previous ballots. I see some people still in denial about their character not getting in. The final batch of DLC has been fully announced; it’s over. Hope for the best for the next Smash as the ballot data can be used for future installments.
I don’t feel that Corrin “took” any ballot slots. As I stated above, based on Sakurai’s statements in the Direct, the idea behind representing an upcoming game is what led to Corrin’s inclusion. I hope Sakurai discusses this more in a Famitsu column in the future, as this is the part that I’m not entirely sold on. The first question is: Did Sakurai really have to represent an upcoming game with DLC? The second question is: Was Fire Emblem: Fates a game that really needed promotional DLC? Quite frankly, I don’t feel Sakurai needed to represent an upcoming game—especially as a DLC character. If the team was bigger, or if they had more time, then I might not have cared. Right now, Fire Emblem characters represent nearly 30% of the DLC characters, which in my mind isn’t fair.
Corrin’s inclusion is the second example of a character being included for promotional purposes (even though Roy was supposed to debut in his game before Melee) and both of those characters are Fire Emblem. If this was the rationale behind their inclusion, then Sakurai should embrace the concept and include characters from new series that might need the promotion. Code Name S.T.E.A.M. did terribly in Japan, and having a character from that series could have helped. Splatoon was an unproven IP and a rep might have made the series “safer.” Or even a Paper Jam character, or a Federation Force character? Why not go obscure and promote an eShop title by HAL Laboratories, like Box Boy!, or other e-Shop only titles? Either Fire Emblem is a series that isn’t popular and needs assistance with promotion, or it’s popular enough that it doesn’t need extra promotion. In my opinion, it can’t be both—and yet you have fans claiming both at the same time.
In the end, I do feel Corrin is unique and they’re not a terrible choice. When considering the big picture of DLC, though, it’s one that I’m not personally thrilled with. It’s the end of Smash for Wii U/ 3DS, and overall I’m happy with the entire game. I just wish the DLC offered a bit more to me, personally.
*Corrin’s Quote Comparison
Japanese: “We decided that, if we’re going to create more downloadable fighters, it made sense to add a character from a new release. After some discussion, Corrin was selected from the group of candidates, and we set to work.”
American:“As we developed new fighters, we thought to include someone from this upcoming game. That’s how we decided to begin production on Corrin”
The reason the mistranslation may exist is because Sakurai states, 最新作, or “newest release.” It could refer to Fire Emblem: Fates in particular, or one of Nintendo’s newest releases in general. Based on Sakurai’s statement, it makes more sense that the correct translation is “newest releases,” as he was concerned with Fire Emblem overrepresentation—but because of Corrin’s unique moveset, they were chosen.
If you are interested in hearing additional opinions on Corrin (more positive!), check out Delzethin’s video, embedded below:
Please keep it civil in the discussion. At the end of the day, it’s nothing to cry about, and there’s no justification in being mean to another user. We are all a part of the Smash family.
- Smash Ultimate Development Timeline - May 16, 2020
- Straight from the Source: Koji Igarashi on Castlevania in Smash, Bloodstained - October 16, 2018
- Sakurai Discusses Isabelle, Echoes, and Newcomers - September 26, 2018
I understand the Sakurai’s mindset to introduce a upcoming game and make every DLC Character his (her in Bayonetta’s case) own class of character choice.
Personally I don’t think that the NEWER Fire Emblem games actually need extra-promotion (some older games flooped or have only okay sales because the lack of promotion in any way, something really hard to do with the no-major series priori the Nintendo Direct’s existence.).
That is my opinion, I don’t like his/her inclussion (at least this shows that Sakurai will never choose a Chrom-like character, and that is great), but is perfectly understable.
Right now I’m wishing for see in the future the Tellius games again now that the franchise has the Nintendo Directs and Post-Awakening Popularity in its side (Micaiah could be one of the characters benefited to things like “unique choices from Fire Emblem”)
Same as you, I’ve always thought Micaiah may have a chance to be in Smash due to need of more female and magicians, but after Robin’s inclusion, I felt that her chance has been debunked.
And eventually, even if Corrin was excluded and made Micaiah included instead, I still think people will spread the same salt to her. It doesn’t matter what kind of weapon or specialties they use, but as long they’re an FE character, people will still say “Another FE Character”.
I guess so… I’m okay with that, but I will supporting Micaiah… This twitter exists with that mission…
And yeah, don’t really care who was the character, if it’s a Fire Emblem Character, will get salt anyway.
Oh gosh. That suggestion about Box Boy. The character I never knew I wanted.
Although I feel that there are too many FE characters, I am thankful that this one is unique, and adds an interesting twist to the existing cast.
Of course I’m still salty Snake did not make it in.
I would’ve been more comfortable with Elma to be honest.
Elma’s probably my third choice out of the characters for recent games (after Inkling and Corrin.) I would’ve loved to see a Xenoblade X character over another Fire Emblem one, but sadly, Elma’s not as original for what she can do as Corrin. 🙁
“I do feel the series balance for Fire Emblem has finally tipped the scales.”
I see what you’re doing there, DustIn. ¬.¬
Glad you liked it! I’m always trying to find ways to incorporate more puns into my writing 😛
As far as there being a numerical glut of Fire Emblem representation, it’s at least as sensible to blame Roy (and Lucina, but true clones take little effort and shouldn’t be put on the same pedestal). If Sakurai really included a Melee vet for the sake of having a Melee vet, that’s just as arbitrary as including a recent character just for the hell of it. And Corrin is certainly more distinctive than a semi-clone. The levels of sodium certainly would have been reduced were it not for Roy. Then again, I believe this is Sakurai’s first experience producing DLC, so perhaps some faulty planning was to be expected.
I could understand on Roy’s blame, but if they’d brought a Melee vet in the second wave DLC, then they should notice that most of those vets are clones, which is Roy, Young Link, and Pichu. Mewtwo was the fan favorite choice as that wouldn’t count as a Melee vet, while Toon Link is the replacement of Young Link and Pichu was too hated by Smash fans because of it’s masochist abilities. So the only choice they could bring it back was nothing but Roy…but honestly, there were too many clones for secret characters back in Melee days. And not to mention…but I guess that’s just only me since I really don’t know; Roy was mostly wanted to return by many fans in Japan.
And you’re right about the last part. This DLC service was meant to be Sakurai’s first time. He may not have known what kind of REAL special things to be added in DLC. It was something he normally wouldn’t do, but I guess he learned how DLC really works by understand every negative faults of it. And if he do plan to make Smash 5, I guess he’ll bring something different but new and surprising for fan favoritism.
He did not do too bad after all. Ryu, Cloud, Bayonetta are at least pretty awesome IMHO. Also, I also somehow celebrated Mewtwos comeback. Roy on other other hand …. not really, same with Lucas. I just wish some more fighters would have been in development. Even through it is pricely as ****, Smash brothers is a pretty unique experience for me and has a big replay value.
At first when I saw Corrin’s reveal, the only thing on my mind was “OMG, there is going to be so much salt!” I didn’t mind that Corrin was added (I actually had a Mii Fighter of the female version a while back), and seeing the moveset trailer made me excited.
I’ve said this before, but I feel like the whole “six Fire Emblem reps” thing is blown a little out of proportion… Marth and Ike were added in the base roster as veterans, with Robin being the new FE newcomer.
Lucina was originally an alternate costume for Marth, but due to extra development time, she, Dark Pit, and Dr. Mario got their own slots (with Alph coming close too.)
Roy was added as the Melee veteran (not so much as an FE character)… between the technically feasible options (him, Pichu, and Young Link), he made the most sense. This is also why we got Lucas instead of Wolf… though some might debate this issue, it’s a known fact that Wolf was developed at the last minute and shares a ton of attack animations with other fighters… Lucas’ regular attacks are pretty much all original.
And then we have Corrin, who is the other totally original FE character besides Robin.
Don’t get me wrong… Corrin is not my first choice, but fans need to look at it more than “the sixth FE character” or “the Nth sword user.” He’s a character that can transform parts of his body, similar to most of the cast in Darkstalkers. This hasn’t been done in Smash before, even though the randomness in Villager’s and Mr. Game & Watch’s movesets came close to the idea. I feel like this is a big part of the reason why Corrin was chosen over a lot of other potential choices.
Besides Corrin, the only better choice I can think of from a recent game is Inkling… but it seems like the Mii Fighter costume dashed that dream away. It’s obvious s/he’s going to be in Smash 5, but I would’ve had someone represent Nintendo’s newest original IP rather than the newest iteration of an existing IP.
I do feel sorry for those who feel cheated, but there’s always next time.
I kinda agree, but FE is tied for the second largest roster in smash, with Pokemon. That does seem a bit over the top for that series, especially with the fact that series like Zelda got no new reps (or returning reps for that matter).
I also see it odd that Roy is the melee choice when Mewtwo seemed to fit that slot already.
I think it was important to get in a Nintendo newcomer in the DLC, and once you’ve decided to do that I can only see three categories available:
1) Someone from a newer game.
2) Someone considered for inclusion originally, but rejected.
3) Someone obscure enough to not be considered for the base game.
Anyone from category 2 already had reasons against their inclusion (though we don’t know what they are; I’d still love to see a bunch of them). Category 3 has obvious problems…
So I don’t think they picked someone from a new game for promotional purposes, but rather because they liked the best character from among those options more than finding yet another character from the same pool from which they’d already selected more than 50.
And then why,of all the games,fates deserved the advertisement??? Xeno X,splatoon,paper jam,hyrule warrios legend. They would be better,waaaay much better for advertisement (even though i hate the idea). This just proves more that sakurai is very biased with the fire emblem franchise. Im not accepting any sell out. -_-
(And to any people wanting to say”then don’t buy it”,thats not a good answer. Go come up with something better)
+ Kid Icarus ^^
I would have flipped angrily my table, if he would have announced an other one. At least Bayo was a consolation.
I was hoping for another KI character if possible, which I’ve chose Medusa than Hades due to her long history in the series. However, I remember Sakurai said that he didn’t want to bring another character from his games since he didn’t want to overrepresent it, so I guess 3 characters for each Sakurai game rosters were his own limitation, while others had their own freedom of representation.
Fire Emblem’s popular in Japan, so I see no reason on why they shouldn’t have 6 representatives. The only reason why I’m upset with this character’s inclusion is that they had so many other characters to pick from in the Fire Emblem series (minus the waifu fanatic’s picks). But instead of looking for some of the most well-known Fire Emblem characters, they grabbed one from the newest game to promote it’s sales. It’s a win-win for Nintendo because even if we pick either one of the three Fire Emblem: Fates games, the Corrin DLC for Sm4sh, both, or none and Corrin just gets a character reveal, Fire Emblem: Fates still gets promoted and the Fire Emblem series gets more well-known and it’s ratings get boosted regardless. This is the part where T.V. Tropes calls this the “Xanatos Gambit”, where no matter what the outcome is it only benefits the planner.
All-in-all, I love the Fire Emblem series, if only I could play the recent ones on the Wii U. Corrin should’ve been brought into Super Smash Bros. in the sequel (if they plan on making one, that is). It’s a little upsetting that they choose to promote the newest game rather than bringing in another well-known Fire Emblem character.
“Fire Emblem is recently popular with fans.”
One has to remember Fire Emblem was on its last legs before Awakening revitalized the series by introducing more ‘Persona 3/4’ type of elements as I like to say.
True, but it is still popular to this day.
Ha! Fire Emblem would kill to even reach the popularity of Metroid, Star Fox, and Kirby!
Are you REALLY implying that FE is as popular as Pokémon of all things? Don’t be so deluded.
Well, someone’s sounding rather condescending, now aren’t they? I don’t recall Pokémon being brought up once in this thread.
While you’re correct in saying that Fire Emblem isn’t as popular as most of those titles, you’ve come off as quite a snob with your phrasing.
Make no mistake — I have no delusions that you give any thought to such thing. Perhaps you even revel in your own delusions of self grandeur.
However, you don’t seem to realize that Fire Emblem is indeed rising in popularity. I might even argue that it has surpassed Metroid.
Elma was sort of in the same exact position as Corrin based on how Sakurai chose Corrin. Xenoblade Chronicles X (at the time they chose Corrin) was also an upcoming game that was highly anticipated. I sincerely believe FE: Fates didn’t need the extra promotion because FE: Awakening was so well-loved in Japan that it almost seemed expected that FE: Fates might do just as well. XBX could have been better off with the extra promotion and there would not have been quite as much negative reception as Corrin received for being “another” FE character. From what I’ve heard, people bought Wii Us specifically because of XBX. All I can think now is that Sakurai specifically chose Corrin because of his/her unique dragon morphing abilities and because he’s an obvious fan of the Fire Emblem series more than the Xenoblade Chronicles series (he visited concerts for both, mind you). I think Fates also needed the extra crutch because they broke it up into 3 separate games (similar to Pokemon). The Special Edition cartridges are now sold out of pre-orders.
Thanks for linking the video! I remember you saying you were interested, but I didn’t think you’d find a way to work it into an article so soon!
In a way, it feels like Corrin has become the scapegoat for people’s disappointment. He was definitely a risky choice–Sakurai himself acknowledged that. But when we first found out that DLC was ending so abruptly and with so many fan favorites getting passed up on, there was a lot of salt, a lot of anger. And so it was directed at the character that felt the most “unworthy” in comparison. Ironically, it wasn’t directed at the sole Ballot selection, unlike what you would’ve expected!
Personally, I think that is the main reason the “promotion” argument has been thrown around so much. Assuming Corrin _must_ have been a tool to promote Fates makes him an easier scapegoat. Of course, the truth is it’s much more complicated, especially when Sakurai cares far more about a character’s own merits than promoting their series, something he has outright said. Based on what we know, Sakurai was interested in adding a character from one of Nintendo’s newer games, but not necessarily a new _series_, as we’ve seen him hesitate on those before and that was probably the reason he passed on the Inklings. It may have come down to him deciding Corrin had more potential than Elma, Paper Mario, or whoever else was in the running.
It’s a complicated situation, one that won’t become clearer until we learn more about what their full decision process was with DLC in the coming months and years. It’s especially complicated right now with how many people are shooting from the hip, so to speak. If anything, we’ll need to wait and see how things go.
Was Corrin the best choice for a DLC newcomer from a recent game? I don’t know. But he’s here nonetheless, he looks unique as hell, and hopefully people are willing to give him a chance.
If it wasn’t Corrin, it was going to be a newcomer based on an upcoming game. If Bayonetta was from Fire Emblem, I would be complaining about her. At least she’s from a unique franchise and represents a unique genre at that. As a non-RPG fan I don’t have many DLC characters to be excited for. I had Ryu….and…Bayonetta. That’s it. 2/7. Fire Emblem has the same count; 2/7. The rest are characters I didn’t mind, but none that I really wanted. I can understand why Corrin was chosen out of all the other characters that were possible for the promotion slot, but it shows that DLC was not fully planned from the start — they made it as they went. That’s reflected in the overall choices they made.
For what it’s worth, I only have two DLC characters I’m super interested in: Cloud and Corrin. I suppose it’s not as about giving some people 5+ characters they’d find interesting so much as it is giving everyone at least two?
Metroid Prime Federation Force or at LEAST Star Fox Zero however seem to prove they somehow listen to their fans. I think if enough people are somehow really pissed they silently try to save what can be saved. Star Fox gets or got an graphics update and I guess something will happen with Metroid as well. In the worst case they will somehow acknowledge they made some mistakes with the dlc choices. If they do an extended NX port, maybe some more fans requests will be converted.
As a long-time FE fan, I am mostly unhappy about the choice of Corrin, mainly that it’s only because Sakurai is a crazed obsessed fan of the series. I feel that making Robin & Lucina had been a waste of time. Fire Emblem has no long-term characters. It couldn’t be a character from Paper Mario, or Pokken Tournament, or Starfox Zero, or Hyrule Warriors: Legends? It had to be from another Fire Emblem?
What does the move-set of Corrin have to do with it? Very, VERY little. His abilities have little to do with it. It’s all about the creativity that Sakurai puts into the character, and that could be either very good or very crappy depending on the character. If he wanted, he could have given Marth & Ike additional axes, lances, bows, or horseback; they’re not limited to only one weapon. DK is another character overlooked in regards to moves. His final Smash is still terrible.
“Codename S.T.E.A.M. did terrible in Japan.”
But Bayonetta 1 & 2 did not?
I wouldn’t think there would be chances for Hyrule Warriors being in Smash. Although Zelda series are from Nintendo, this game is licensed by Koei-Tecmo. And just like Geno’s case, Lana and Linkle are made by Koei-Tecmo. If they’d brought Koei-Tecmo to Smash, then they’d rather choose someone else than Hyrule Warriors, which I can think of Ninja Gaiden’s Ryu Hayabusa being the best candidate as being more unique than anybody from DoA series.
But either way, there will be salt among any character’s inclusion, which it wouldn’t be too odd to see. I think that’s what human nature is, we’re just greedy on certain things.
I feel like since Brawl that Sakurai has been trying to pick characters that appeal to different regions since they all have different tastes (Japan feels like Kirby is under represented in Smash, the West feels Metroid and DK are severely lacking love- (I believe Europe has a similar feeling towards Golden Sun and the like.)) That makes sense because of variance in culture and taste and the history with those series.
Either way I feel like the last Smash DLC had no way to please everyone. K. Rool, Inkling, and Wolf? People would whine over predictability, wasting a character slot on a veteran, and the 3DS version limiting the possibilities for Inkling’s moveset. Cloud, Snake, Banjo Kazooie? People would complain about all being third parties, That BK hasn’t been popular except in one generation on a single platform, and that Snake and Cloud, though some of the most iconic video game characters in existence, don’t have enough ties with Nintendo.
There was no way to win. No matter who they chose people would complain because that wasn’t /there/ character that they lovingly voted for… These characters hold a lot of Nostalgia and love from passionate fans and no matter what happened people would be crushed.
(To be fair I am very calm about character speculation since I wasn’t allowed to play video games as a child (And when I did it was PS and Gameboy) so very few characters have really resonated with me- probably only Pac-Man, Kirby, and Jigglypuff. Everything else just seems neat to me and I am glad to see them, but I don’t have super strong connections to them.)
In hindsight though this roster is unbelievably surreal and godly- at this point not every character has to appeal to you and that is perfectly fine.
“There was no way to win. No matter who they chose people would complain because that wasn’t /their/ character that they lovingly voted for.”
This. There was some salt with Ryu’s and Cloud’s announcements, but nothing to the degree of when DLC ended. I think a lot of fans are upset because their favorite pick has no chance now, where as before it was “there are x amount of slots left, there’s still hope.” No matter who Corrin or Bayonetta would’ve been, there would have been complaints… I even saw tons of Inkling hate throughout the speculation period. (u_u)
Comments like yours make me wish this site had a like feature. No matter what happened, there would’ve been salt and people would’ve been attacked. Corrin just happened to be the scapegoat this time; who’s to say who it would’ve been had the situation been different?
Like you, I saw the opening with Fates/iF “choice” scene, and figured “Oh, well then.” XD I was surprised, but neither in a good or bad way.
As a long time FE fan, I say there were plenty of others to choose from, but if he truly was promoting future installments, I suppose it couldn’t really be helped.
I am happy for those who are happy, and wish the best for those who may feel a little bitter. Nothing can really be done, it’s best to look forward I guess!
A question. Bayonetta looked basically finished or at least with a lot of progress done, and that most likely means that she was already being worked on before october, when the ballot ended, because otherwise, it would be weird to think that they had done so much from the day the ballot to december. So, in case she was started before the ballot ended, why would they keep the ballot open? it fed people’s false hope for more time. Would they close it “late” just so people had the sensation to wait less for when the character was announced? What’s your opinion.
I think Bayonetta was started in August, as her “slot” appeared in September. Maybe after Iwata’s passing they decided to cut development a little shorter, or due to the 3DS unable to handle a lot of DLC they found out 7 was their max? If you buy all the DLC it’s over 100 USD, so they could’ve influenced their decision. There’s a lot of variables, and right now we don’t know what’s the most important.
I’m not sure why they kept the ballot until October if they have already decided on a character before Autumn began, but it would’ve been nice though if they had an actual post-ballot character on release sometime in Spring 2016. It just seemed a little unfair that those who had many months to think about who they should vote for not have their suggestions recognized because they have already decided on a character in the middle of the ballot. Unless, however, that they were using Bayonetta as a post-April Fools joke and released another ballot-inspired character for free while players would still have to buy the Bayonetta DLC for the same price which is very unlikely considering that Sakurai said that this will be the last Sm4sh DLC that they’ll make.
If Bayo was already in a huge lead with no other realizable characters possibly taking her place, starting development in August would make sense. If they hadn’t, we might not have seen Bayo (or even known about her) until later. I really doubt there could have been THAT many votes to tip the results farther than they already were by August when the ballot was front-loaded back in the spring.
Took me a day to think about this and I have already found one fallacy: it was never implied that Bayonetta won by a landslide. It could’ve been possible that whoever got in 2nd place (of realizable characters) by August but got bumped to first by October. But since they have already picked a character by August they may have decided to take the guy that beat her out of the “realizable” characters group. Since we never really got the results, we do not know if Bayonetta really won by a landslide. I didn’t want to say anything further because this is getting off-topic. Plus this is heavily debatable and unpredictable since we do not know what Sakurai really wants us to see in Super Smash Bros., so it’s better to leave this be.
But…DLC is external data. The limit of DLC is the limit of how much data the hardware itself can hold.
J. G. speaks the truth. Hard drive space was never the issue when it came to the 3DS version; as far as I heard there was no hard limit on how much DLC it can handle. The Ice Climbers didn’t make it due to a RAM issue, not anything involving data storage.
Uhm I think in the business world they know what they are doing (bad business decisions including of course).
I mean otherwise Nintendo would have shut down everything and cry like forever about their loss. Smash is lead by Sakurai. And I dare to say, even if HE would have died, I think the team would have roughly known, what to do.
The show must go on. Like I said: This is the business world. At the end they are not really a family. A loss in the familiy is something completly different and very personal of course. Sakurai stated before iwatas Death (I think it was before?) that the team can not be kept together forever.
@Bob:
“I’m not sure why they kept the ballot until October if they have already decided on a character before Autumn began,”
I wonder about the same. I seems unlikely Bayonetta could be developed THIS FAST within rougly 1,5 months. She seems about to be nearly finished, only some polishing and maybe some balancing seems to be missing. Maybe the ballot results will be still relevant for them.
“unless, however, that they were using Bayonetta as a post-April Fools joke ”
a little bit far-fetched, isn`t it? xD
Anyway, too bad it is ending soon.
Condering they are making a lot of money with DLCs, it is far more than just fanservice. It is a cash cow. I am very sure Smash 4 has made them roughly 50 % more money than Brawl (if everybody at least buys the extra fighters). The sales are still lower, but the income from the DLCs give spice to it.
“As soon as I saw the members of the Hoshido clan on the screen, my heart dropped. I knew that somehow another Fire Emblem character had made their way into battle”
Same here…
” I don’t think Corrin is a bad choice. I just don’t know if they’re the best.”
As a character, if we ignore the franchises, yes it seems a good character. For the sake of balance of the other franchises: NOPE!
“I do feel the series balance for Fire Emblem has finally tipped the scales”
Nice one xD
“The last reason most people are upset is because “their choice” wasn’t chosen. ”
This might only count for angry stupid kids. Even through I did not even consider Bayonetta during the ballot, I was very glad she got announced, I was about to be very happy. No problem with it.
It is just the freaking unfair balance of having just an other FE character. ANYTHING else would have fit better: A zelda rep, Inkling (I dont even have a wii u therefore never played Splatoon), heck, even Chibo Robo etc. But with Corrin chosen – yes – I was pissed, just because of the mentioned reason.
“Was Fire Emblem: Fates a game that really needed promotional DLC?”
Nope! Even through it did not sell like crazy in japan, specially the states are looking forward to it as it seems. The previous FE made its series popular. Even Chibo Robo could have needed more advertising. I am not sure, but maybe Nintendo really wanted to be on the safe side with hype any all that stuff.
” then Sakurai should embrace the concept and include characters from new series that might need the promotion. Code Name S.T.E.A.M”
Forgot about THAT one actually.
“If the team was bigger, or if they had more time, then I might not have cared. ”
Yes like you said, basically it is all about balance. With more DLC fighters from different franchises I would not have cared either. I really feel like they dont want to support certain franchises really anymore.
“Corrin’s inclusion is the second example of a character being included for promotional purposes”
At least Marth and Roy (or rather Fire Emblem) were freaking NEW back in Melee then. Now fans are starting to get sick of FE as it goes on like that. A new franchise in smash is usually more exciting.
Two possible solutions/suggestions:
1. Reveal a NX port of Smash 4 with some fan favorites / ballot choices (K.Rool, Wolf, Shovel Knight, Shantae, Rayman etc). As a complete package of additional fighters it could calm most of the fans, despite having to buy just an other version of smash.
“Hope for the best for the next Smash as the ballot data can be used for future installments.”
2. Do NOT stopp making DLC for Smash 4, I know they stated Bayo as the last one. But would anybody really feel angry if they come: “It was been decided, we get some more time and characters to develop, to make mor fans happy”. Might not happen through.
I’m just going to say now that if we DO see an NX port of Smash 4 not to really expect anybody new. That would bring about one of two unlikely scenarios: that they’ll make new characters without Sakurai or they’ll have to write up a new contract with him. Remember that Sakurai basically takes care of the balancing too, so at best, if we WERE able to have someone else take care of balancing, we’d just get another veteran or two… I really doubt they’d have someone else take care of making a new character.
I could be wrong, of course… I have been before, but I think we should keep our expectations low on an NX port existing at all.
I know Smash can not be compared with Mario or Zelda games (both have gotten new directors at some point AFAIK), but they have to find a replacement for Sakurai at some point anyway. Even the mario voice actor (keep forgetting his name all the time lol) will be no more in roughly 10-15 years maybe.
But nobody of us knows what is going on. I still think an enhanced complete NX port is likely and Sakurai can shift down a gear during its development since NX it not even revealed yet, not every smash 4 dlc released etc.
compared to a full new game this might end up as a piece of cake for him, despite having to add a few more characters. At least by now Nintendo realized the very true value of the smash IP. I am really sure news wont take too long after the dlc end. Just my opinion of course.
I keep wondering how much more money Nintendo might have taken compared to Brawl. For an extrapolation “we” would have to consider the price for each region for Brawl back then, reduce it to a common denominator (Dollar most likely) …just to get a rough idea about the income, not included second hand sales or price drops. … ok might turn out too imprecise. ^^
Charles Martinet is the voice actor for Mario, in case if you don’t feel like browsing for his name. But you are right, Super Smash Bros. cannot rely solely on Masahiro Sakurai. The Kirby franchise is working fine without him, why not Smash? It would be like saying that the U.S. relies solely on it’s president when it doesn’t. But if they do make an NX version it wouldn’t be the same as the current version. Each Super Smash Bros. is different in every way. The first one lacked content but became the gateway to a new fighting style. Melee is just an upgrade of the original, with more content and faster gameplay. Brawl has a story-mode and has slightly more content than Melee, but has slower gameplay. This version is split into two, with the pocket edition putting focus on single-player and the home version focusing on multiplayer while the gameplay speed is in between the last two. It makes me wonder what the NX version would bring (if they do make one). But I doubt that Sakurai would add more characters if he was making an NX port of Sm4sh for the sake of keeping the roster equal to the Wii U and 3DS versions (remember the Ice Climbers).
I feel like the decision for Corrin’s inclusion has a lot to do with Roy’s success. The fact that people begged and paid for Roy back even though there were already 4 Fire Emblem characters in the game tells Nintendo and Sakurai that people are happy with more Fire Emblem characters for promotional purposes, because that’s exactly what Roy was back in Melee and now he’s a fan favorite.
My take on the matter:
– Is Corrin good?
I’d say yes. Actually, I was a bit disappointed to see FE Fates come out so late, because I’d have liked Corrin over Robin as far as newcomers go. I do still like Robin, though…
– Is Fire Emblem over-represented?
Maybe. But reports that it is more over-represented than Zelda is way overblown. Fire Emblem gets fewer stages, items, trophies and AT characters than Zelda, while almost tying Zelda in character count (depending on your definition of a character or fighter).
– Why Corrin? Why not other characters from the other new games?
I think this is because Corrin makes the most sense out there: a main character who fights unconventionally, but is still technically feasible. Other contenders I can think of include characters from Hyrule Warriors or Xenoblade X (who may have lost to Corrin in terms of moveset uniqueness), or Splatoon (the Inklings feel more unique to me, but their ink physics is incredibly difficult to add to an already complete game). Ultimately, I cannot say for sure.
– Do they need a recent game rep?
There is no such thing as “needing” a character in Smash, especially in this iteration. If the Wii Fit Trainer was never announced, nobody would even have called it an omission! That said, I think having a new character helps “balancing” the roster between the new and old. As we approach 2016, the Smash roster up to Greninja (2013) feels a little bit old to me.
Can we expect for a similar text for Bayonetta? I’m curious to read something similar about her, since her inclusion has pretty far more positive feedback from the internet. Something like “for 1 person happy about Corrin, I see 50 happy about Bayonetta” (51 if you count myself, hahaha). When I read the reactions article, I was saddened, because I couldn’t believe that I would see so much salt from the writers from the same site that wrote five reasons defending Cloud’s inclusion (and let’s agree, Bayonetta has more bonds with Nintendo than Cloud), I read nonsense stuff compared to previous articles from the same authors, and that made me very sad, sorry for that.
About Corrin, I felt completely indifferent about his inclusion, I’m also indifferent over the Fire Emblem overrepresenting, because I believe that Mario, Pokémon and Zelda still hold the largest representations in the series. Plus, if I had to bash FE for having too much characters, I would rather bash Lucina and/or Roy, the first one was planned to be an alternate costume for Marth, and even both character recieve the exact same balance adjustments in every patch, and Roy was brought back by Melee fans, which is a pretty dumb decision since, following the logic of this article, we already got Mewtwo back, why another character from Melee? Roy is the only character I disliked his inclusion, because of this.
There’s 17 people working on the site, so there’s bound to be different opinions on the site. On one hand we have writers who want to keep Smash “pure” and only Nintendo characters while others (like myself) want to see Smash embrace third parties.
I haven’t written a justification for Bayonetta because I believe her inclusion rests completely on the ballot! Would be a really short article!!
I believe that keeping Smash pure and Nintendo-only would be a backward step at this point in time. I mean, as for me, it’s very depending of the circumstances, if we hadn’t Mega Man announced in the beginning, I wouldn’t demand any third party character and would be happy with a pure Nintendo-only Smash game, but since Mega Man was showed in the first trailer, I demanded Sonic back, the rest would be profit. What I can’t forgive is how fanboy-esque sounded the salt of people like SmashChu, he was disgusting salty in that day and wrote a soap opera about his disappointment :v
I know this kind of research is one of the hardest, but if you think it’s a good idea, I wanted to know what Japan thought about their votes not even being mentioned in the direct, and instead only american and european votes. Or were they mostly happy with the characters regardless of that?
I’ve kind of stopped doing those articles because people keep taking a select few as the “representation of all Japanese people”. Typically responses asnjudt as varied as they are in the West.
I can see the difference between the reactions of Japan and the west, while western audience are terribly disappointed, Japanese audience are quite happy for Corrin’s inclusion as there’s more FE fans in Japan than the west. I think that’s the difference between Japan and the west. This is just my typical view, but FE series has a long history in Japan since the Famicom era, while the west never had such history after Melee’s release. Even FE series are released globally, they’re like Dragon Quest, which nobody still know or have interest with these new RPG games, which they simply strongly compare with the Final Fantasy series. I hardly seen or heard any FE or DQ fans in the west (even in Hawaii) than in Japan; even seen anybody playing those games according to Streetpass. But I don’t know how unpopular this game is in the west, nor how popular Fates is in Japan than Awakening. But in my case, even I’m not a fan of FE series, I’m still not disappointed about Corrin’s inclusion, as I’m well happy to have another new Nintendo character and as I wasn’t expecting anything at that time. But either way, even if Corrin and/or Bayonetta wasn’t included and somebody else was instead, there would be salt spread all over the place. Here, Smashboards, Youtube, Reddit, name it and they’re there. And it’s gonna be a hell kind of blood-clogging symptom to suffer for.
But if Corrin was decided to be included before Fates were released in Japan, why did they brought him to Smash this “late”? It does make sense if it was before localization, but that wouldn’t make sense if everybody already knew what the game’s gonna be like, and its really not a big advertisement. But if they wanted to promote a game that wasn’t doing well, then I could understand Splatoon’s exclusion; that games was already too popular and successful even before release. But even then, I wouldn’t think they’d promote a game that was meant to be a junk from the beginning, like Code Name S.T.E.A.M. They could’ve chosen some games that was released in this year 2015, which I could think of is Xenoblade X, Devil’s Third, Rhythm Heaven, Girls Mode 3, Super Pokemon Mystery Dungeon, Chibi-Robo Whip Lash, Triforce Heroes, Paper Jam, etc. But as I agree they needed to choose a franchise that’s already in Smash rather than making a new IP, then it’s understandable that Fates was the only choice, if they REALLY had no choice or not. But even then, I think I could agree that bringing Corrin was a wrong timing, as they could’ve kept him for the next Smash.
However, I could see why Sakurai chose Corrin instead. Yes he is another FE character which people hate the most; but he’s not like any FE characters. They’re not another blue haired hero, he’s not another Marth clone nor a clone of anybody. Just like Robin, he’s completely a newly modeled character with new uniqueness which nobody in Smash had. He’s not even any typical sword fighter either, which his sword is almost a hybrid of a chainsaw with contains multiple hits. He also has a shape shifting ability as his main attacks rather than using his sword, and this Dark Stalker-ish move sets are something that no other Smash characters have. Comparing him with other FE characters, Corrin is one character from a different dimension of uniqueness, and that’s something Sakurai was looking for.
But even then, as I say his inclusion was an unexpected one, this Smash was full of unexpected inclusions. Some characters weren’t from fan’s requests. Animal Crossing was requested, but Wii Fit too? Bowser Jr. was requested, but Rosalina too? I can suspect some of these characters weren’t from the fans, but instead maybe from the staffs. That could explain where these characters came from. Even this could explain where did the whole Chorus Men idea came from before being debunked. But even if these characters were mostly came from the staff’s ideas, Sakurai still listened to fan’s requests (Cloud and Bayonetta’s inclusion are the evidence), which few requested characters were able to make it in. But even Sakurai can make anything possible, he’s a man who can’t make promises. I’m not saying he’s a liar, but as he can be a troll sometimes, he can’t promise anything to fans as those expectations will betray them and make them disappointed like this. He has his own ideas which nobody could know nor understand what it is. And eventually, this is still his first time using DLC for this game, and he’s still learning. If he plans to make Smash 5, he can try recollect those learning to make the game more better than before. As it’s important not to expect anything as hyping responsibly, we can still hope for those excluded characters to be in the next Smash, as Sakurai will have lots of free time to think what he can add to those characters from now on.
It seems to me that despite Corrin being super cool looking to play as, out of all the games they could’ve advertised it was Fire Emblem and out of all the Nintendo newcomers it was another Fire Emblem characters. No Elma from Xenoblade X, that got like no advertising that I saw. Or an Inkling from Splatoon, the newest and biggest hit on the Wii U. No Savvy Stylist from the newest Style Savvy None of those peeps who’ve been asking for someone since Melee got someone, Really feel for the K Rool community, Ridley got an explanation, it was absolute bullshit, but better to be mentioned that your popular, and said no, Than stuffed into a mii costume and never uttered again.
So overall while I’m dissapointed it’s not Elma, Corrin looks cool and fun,
BUT. I am also mad that they’re using the male Corrin as the default, Dude Robin got all the cool stuff, the Amiibo, cameos, playable appearances. Female Robin got jack all and now that’s gonna happen again with Corrin.
As with everything in this Smash Bros, this character looks amazingly intricate and a really interesting fighter. My only beef with Corrin is that he has no fan base, and unlike in Melee, there are people who’s main’s got cut completely and instead of appeasing those people we got another character for FE fans… One that doesn’t even have a fan base.
Cloud and Bayo would have been more than enough for the fans who want all new fighters instead of returning characters, this slot should have gone to either Wolf or Snake who have huge fan bases of people who feel their favorite was cut and now have to main their secondary.. I think it would have brought more balance to the game. It really sucks to main a character for 8 years (wolf, Snake) or 15 years (ice climbers) and now those people are fucked.
Developing this kind of game must be damn near impossible and I’ll never lose sight of how amazing Mr. Sakurai’s work has been but cutting characters Reall hurts.
Squirtle and Ivysaur are two of the only completely unique move set cuts, by the way. And the only two without assumed legal and technical barriers. In fact, the only “barrier” is, “too much of one series.” Not only is that not justification, it isn’t even pertinent (apparently).
Just gonna throw that out there.
Even at the thesis, there is absolutely an inherent issue with determining a “Brawl vet” and a “Melee vet.”
The fact that both of those are also characters derived from another, “clones/semiclones/whatever” (I will stick with derived movesets as the phrase), is problematic in itself.
Add in the given selection pools, and there are more problems.
Melee had 5 cut veterans.
Dr Mario already made it back into the game. Then, discounting Mewtwo (for absolutely no reason, by the way), we have three. When the options are Young Link, Roy, and Pichu- there is unfortunately no competition for what the fans would choose. The issue is that the fans never got to choose out of a limitless selection (and I stand by this with Bayonetta being realized). Why should fan vote matter out of this crap selection?
Then with Brawl- Lucas may have been popular, hell, he may have been the most popular. I doubt that- but he may have. (Of course, this is barring Ice Climbers and Snake, which then only leaves Wolf, Lucas, Squirtle, Ivysaur, and theoretically, although rarely considered, Pokemon Trainer). Again, not only a great selection, but in reality, if only one is being chosen, it makes both Squirtle and Ivysaur obsolete, because it really is all or nothing on that end.
The reality of these “Veterans” is that we got a 1/3 and 1/2 options. Melee had no options, and Brawl only had two- and I’d say they picked the wrong one. Hell, this contradicts Sakurai’s own “criteria” (which, doesn’t exist in a literal way, I’m aware; there is no codification we can give it, as it is a creative process that cannot be simplified into code).
However, for the sake of this point, we could have knocked out too many birds in one stone. It really is opportunities missed, left and right, and it doesnt take too much thought to figure out. Wolf is both a Brawl veteran and also a big part of an upcoming game (which I believe be delayed again, because its getting absolutely no push).
This is all enough to think it wasn’t properly thought through (or, as I suspect, is an explanation given after the fact to justify the actions separately from how they were actually made). Even if Sakurai was going for these 6 “categories,” why? Why the hell did he choose these as the classifications? Why doesnt Mewtwo count as a melee veteran (it seems its because he was to popular to be counted as in that category). I’m going to make a bit of a leap and pose that these categories were chosen long ago. I believe it had to have been before Iwata died, or that would have made more of an impact, and we
would see Balloon Fighter or someone else.
One of your other articles points out that the only reason we have Nintendo IPs in this fighting game was to help make the game sell back in 64 days. Its almost a shame this series has gotten so far removed from that concept, that the characters choices seem so lofty to the creator.
The bottom line is the one to which you have gotten; if Sakurai is being honest about how these choices came about, it is exceptionally small minded (and in regard to Fire Emblem needing promotion, as you have also said- it is more than a paradox, for further thought does not justify the sensibility). He cannot claim to be ignorant about the upcoming goings-on of the company.
Additionally, he is, as this site has pointed out, an artist. To not critique his work, including his decisions, is to be a fanboy, accepting of anything given. This doesn’t help any artist. I am a big fan of Sakurai, and this is why I am critical of his work. When I find it to be a shitty job done, I’m going to voice my opinion, as narrowly seen as the words may be seen. I will not commend him simply for doing his job, of which the DLC is a part, just as the base game was a part.
If these answers from Sakurai are honest (answers which I do not think he owes us, by the way) I would have to assume he is incredibly daft.