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Filed under: Industry People, Masahiro Sakurai, Super Smash Bros. Series

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Happy New Year! I’m back from my extensive vacation, and feeling refreshed and pumped for the Switch Event next week! Let’s take a look at what you guys had to say.

As far as the format goes, I some mixed responses from the LiveStream reaction. Some people enjoyed the fact that it was more discussion based, while others found the format inconvenient. In the future, I might try it again but keep track of when I respond to certain comments, and record gameplay separately. I might try that for next week.

This article looks at comments made from December 20th- January 3rd

There’s a lot of comments to respond to — over 16 pages (Usually I have 5 pages to respond to!). I’m sorry in advance if I don’t respond to your comments.

Remember, don’t insult other posters. If you insult other posters, your post that you might have spent so much time on might not get approved, and thrown in the trash. Stay classy!

[su_spoiler title=”backup368” style=”fancy”]

If for any reason there would be only two new characters, they would both be third-party, & it’s without question that dozens of companies have already contacted Nintendo.

From:Will “Smash for Switch” Have NEW Characters?
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It really depends, and I could see it going either way (or a mixture). If there is indeed only 2, then the 2 characters they select will be super important, and will need to appeal to a very wide audience. They could still draw in the casual market who didn’t buy the DLC with just the DLC, which was loaded with 3rd Party additions though.

[su_spoiler title=”MagcargoMan” style=”fancy”]

I think Inklings deserve better than being port fodder. They should be headlining Smash 5 as the first newcomers revealed.

From:Will “Smash for Switch” Have NEW Characters?
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Inklings should be in regardless. They don’t need to be saved. The sooner they get in the better.

Brandon said it best in his reply to you:

“I think Ryu and Cloud deserve better than being DLC fodder. They should be headlining Smash 5 as the big third party newcomers.”

Sakurai has stated he doesn’t think of future installments when working on a Smash game. He doesn’t hold back on characters like that.

[su_spoiler title=”Vigilante 155″ style=”fancy”]

If we’re only getting two, as much as i want ice climbers and Wolf back, I’ll go with Inkling, and a third party character from Dragon Quest, though I don’t know how they’ll make a moveset for slime, its difficult to choose what protagonist could be included, as they said “which character is the Cloud Strife of Dragon Quest”?

If more than 2, then I’ll go with: Wolf, Ice Climbers, inklings, Elma, maybe King K. Rool, and two third-party characters.

From:Will “Smash for Switch” Have NEW Characters?
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Not bad choices, and I’d largely agree with you (as you probably heard). Slime could have a moveset made for him…it’s not impossible. He’s had his own series of games, but I do think he’d work better as an AT. For a Dragon Quest character, I think the newest protaganist would make a lot of sense.

[su_spoiler title=” KL-Cobalt” style=”fancy”]

See ya in 2017! =D

From:Featured Comments
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[su_spoiler title=”KL-Cobalt” style=”fancy”]

Not sure on Lara – she’s now owned by Square Enix but the other two I’m sure have some other issues. Crash has his rights tossed all over the place so there’s that…

I’m not 100% sure, but I think Sora is owned if not 100% but the majority by Disney (even though he was designed by Nomura, I’m sure Disney owns most of the rights to everything in Kingdom Hearts that wasn’t in a prior Square Enix property) to which I think Disney would be kinda iffy with that – I mean Sora is designed after Minkey Mouse after all, I don’t think Nintendo could secure Sora from Square Enix when he’s showcasing mostly Disney imagery.

From:Will “Smash for Switch” Have NEW Characters?
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After Disney shut down Disney Infinity, I believe they said they were open to other companies using their IPs in games again. Also, Disney would like Mickey and Mairo to eventually meet! Disney and Nintendo are kind of in similiar positions. Both own legacy IPs and use their IPs for capital. I would love to see Sora in Smash, and I think it’d happen eventually — I just don’t think it’d happen now.

[su_spoiler title=”MagcargoMan” style=”fancy”]

This was kinda inconvenient due to how the long the stream was. I think it’d work better if you played a less-difficult game next time, as it’d be easier to talk while playing. I think it was more engaging that simply reading the comments in an article, as there was some interesting discussion, but it took a while for the pace to pick up.

Funny thing about Nantenjex’s comment about Miyamoto allowing Toad in is that Miyamoto doesn’t really seem to like Toad that much. Remember: “I understand that he has some popularity. Somehow.” Granted, the topic was Mario Kart, so I’m not sure if he feels that way about him regarding the entirety of the franchise. Just thought it was worth pointing out.

Also, what was this leak he mentioned at around the 56 minute mark, something about game codenames involving Mario Party, Pokemon and Kirby?

And this kinda beating a dead horse, but I really don’t understand how anybody can’t see six Fire Emblem characters as pushing it for a series with less games than Zelda and was gonna be killed off if Awakening didn’t sell.

From:Featured Comments
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Yeah, I realized when I was trying to get my Famicom Disk System working that the formatm wasn’t very convenient. As mentioned above, I’ll try something slightly better in the future (maybe pick out responses first?). The issue is if I try to respond to something that’s indepth, it becomes a bit annoying to read the full comment.

The leak that NantenJex was referring to was SuperMetalDave’s leak of Nintendo’s budget. It had the code names for the games. I wish I actually posted this on SG, but based on the codenames I was able to figure out what they would be. “Stars” being a Mario Party game and “Tarte” being a Kirby game. Oh well.

About Fire Emblem: I really don’t know either. Six is really pushing it.

[su_spoiler title=”backup368” style=”fancy”]

Mortal Kombat’s Scorpion would fit right in with the main event of Smash Bros. Not including him because of localization issues or violent content would be hypocritical. MK has sold almost 40 million copies worldwide, it paid its dues, & it’s still around after over 20 years, which is extremely rare for a game franchise from the west. But it would only be fair if Rayman was a character as well, considering that there shouldn’t be an character from North America without there being one from Europe.

From: Will “Smash for Switch” Have NEW Characters
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I love the MK series. I grew up on it. I think it’d be a bit odd to see him in Smash. I haven’t really seen MK around in Japan (and neither Rayman), so I think that might hurt its’ chances…especially as Sakurai sees Smash as a way to promote Japanese games.

[su_spoiler title=”haruhisailormars” style=”fancy”]

The leaks about Switch (whatever truth or lies are in them) are Nintendo’s own fault for stalling far too long. I used to be a lot more gullible many years back and believed everything I read (Eternal Darkness 2 or Star Fox X Metroid as examples) but now I’m wiser. A lot of people are hungry for Switch information and much of the game industry has had access to Switch. If Nintendo are mad at the leaking they should have talked sooner. Its only natural stuff will leak because keeping secrets is absolutely impossible for some people.

I think you should do this kind of featured comments from now on. Just choose your games wisely.

Merry Christmas to you all.

From: Featured Comments
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I think part of it is having to wait too long, but another issue is the shift in mangement and the vaccum that was left after Iwata’s passing. Iwata really was the glue that held Nintendo together.

I’ll do better to improve it in the future!

Hope you had a good holiday!

[su_spoiler title=”anonymous SG fan” style=”fancy”]

No, but I think you’re implying there is a causality between franchise ‘size’ and the number of Smash reps in Smash 4, when Sakurai uses a completely different criteria for deciding the roster.

From:The Substantial Barrier of AAA Games”” Sakurai Col. 514″
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Sakurai does consider franchise balance when deciding characters. It’s outlined in his 2008 GDC speech. (#4)

[su_spoiler title=”Troykv” style=”fancy”]

The predictions depends a lot of how characters we’ll get.

From: Will “Smash for Switch” Have NEW Characters
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It really does!

[su_spoiler title=”backup368” style=”fancy”]

Ezio is not a superhuman. Neither are characters like Captain Falcon & Little Mac, but the difference is that Assassin’s Creed is supposed to portray historical events that happened in real life, & nothing is supposed to be fantasy.

Ezio uses blades and other items, but that’s where it ends. Ezio can climb buildings when every character in Smash Bros. can jump 15 feet high, & he’s not one to survive simple attacks himself. What would his final smash even be, Da Vinci’s flying machine?

Also, Ezio is outdated. Ubisoft tried to revolve the franchise around him, only for the games to grow very stale rather quickly. There is no true mascot of the series, other than the white hood that each main character wears.

I would rather have Rayman. Ezio has guest starred in other games before & it hasn’t always turned out in flying colors.

From:The Case for Ezio
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The white hood is certianly the most iconic aspect of the character. To be honest, I didn’t realize there were other characters in the Assassin Creed games (I avoided the series) until much later. I think Rayman fits better thematically than Ezio, but Ezio wouldn’t be unwarranted.

[su_spoiler title=”[Removed]” style=”fancy”]

I know 6 FE reps is a lot and a bit much. But why do people want Wolf back so badly and what do people see in him? I don’t hate the character and I know he has his own moves compared to the other Star Fox reps. But I don’t get why people want a unique character gone, but want a last minute character that was mostly made of assets from Fox and Falco and has another landmaster with differences and mostly similar special attacks.

I find it hypocritical that people feel Fire Emblem is overrepped, but want more Star Fox reps and are fine with a dormant series in Earthbound having 2 reps. I remember back during the brawl days when people hated R.O.B. thinking he was a waste of a character and were salty about 3 Star Fox reps and 3 landmasters. But people are okay with it now and still are salty about Corrin being in the game after a year since the reveal. Seriously?

Fire Emblem is a major IP now and while it was somewhat ridiculous at first to get yet another rep. It makes sense after seeing the financial briefing back in February. Nintendo sees a lot of potential with the IP since its Renaissance and sees the big following it created, which is probably why they and Intelligent systems convinced Sakurai to add Corrin in. It did help Fates sales after all. It’s getting its own mobile game, it has a new trading card game in Japan, Fates did really well in the US, the series is becoming bigger in the west, there’s people who cosplay as certain characters from Awakening and Fates at conventions, there’s a lot of fanart on places like Pinterest ever since Awakening and Fates came out (a far cry from when there was a smaller amount of fanart and a niche following in the west. Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, Splatoon, and Fire Emblem are generally the series of Nintendo’s that see the most fanart from my research and surfing on places like Deviantart and Pinterest. Remarkable and very surreal if you ask me. Similar to Final Fantasy, and Kingdom Hearts, and anime such as Inuyasha, and Attack on Titan) and bringing in female gamers like Splatoon did. An audience not to underestimate. After all. Many females like Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, and Animal Crossing as well. And a majority are the reason for some of the beautiful and cool fanart we’ve seen for those particular series.

Meanwhile, Star Fox has been in decline since Star Fox Adventures and not even a remake of 64 or a reboot that tried to go back to the roots could restore the glory days of 64. I know Miyamoto will still give the series a chance and wants it to be bigger just like Pikmin. But it will be a while I feel. After all, that recent rumor about a proposed Star Fox Warriors game being rejected due to the uncertainy of the series says a lot honestly (I know it’s a rumor, but still). I know people will blame Wii U and the controls and while the steep learning curve of the controls and over complexity played a role (Its remarkable that Kid Icarus Uprising sold decent since people had complaints about its controls and being an arcade style game), but Command on DS had Wi-fi and multiplayer on a very successful system and it still didn’t sell good and it was in the early years to. I can already see excuses for 64 3D, but if Ocarina of Time 3D and Majoras Mask 3D. Games with some improvements, but not a big amount like Mario 64 DS can sell over 4 Mil and 2 Mil respectively, then Star Fox 64 3D can do the same. I’m convinced arcade space shooters aren’t like they once were during the peak of the arcade days. Same with fighting games. Other than Mortal Kombat and Smash Bros. and to an extent Killer Instinct, it has been difficult for fighting games to sell well. Same with on rails space shooters.

Its a shame, but it’s the reality. Some genres haven’t withstood the tides of time like others have. It’s honestly amazing that SRPG like FE and XCom sold competent since its a genre that’s mostly been dead or not what it once was during the FF Tactics days. While certain elements helped FE out, it’s still a remarkable feat.

Would it be different if Lucina was an alt and Roy wasn’t playable at all and it was Just Marth, Ike, Robin, and then Corrin or would people still be upset? I know change can be hard and we get nostalgic for other series during their hay day, but I wish Smash fans weren’t so resistant to change for series like this. Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t mind Wolf coming back and do enjoy playing as him, but I just wanted to say my case and defend a polarizing topic that still seems to be that way oddly enough. If FE was in decline and had this many reps, then I would complain, but because the series is doing well right now, I don’t mind and understand the intention. I want K.Rool in as much as the next guy, but besides not appearing in a while and despite being the main villain of DKC and the spinoffs, is he really as popular with gamers as we think? A lot of people wanted Bayonetta in Smash after all. They just didn’t think it would happen.

From:Mega Smash Poll: Pre-Switch Poll: First Results
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You are going to love LIQUID12A’s aritcle on post-salt from Brawl and Smash for Wii U/3DS.

Personally spaking, adding Roy and Corrin as part of the 7 character lineup for DLC was the tipping point for me. I didn’t mind Lucina’s addition (she’s just a clone, who really didn’t take up that much time). Robin’s addition was refreshing. It’s just that of the 7 characters we got, 2 were from a series I personally have little connection to. I’ve tried FE multiple times…it’s just not my cup of tea. So having them wasn’t exciting for me. Really…if you didn’t like RPGs you got Ryu and Bayonetta for DLC.

[su_spoiler title=”Anonymous SG Fan” style=”fancy”]

Luckily I don’t think we have to worry about cut characters for Smash Switch. If it were a ground-up build for the system then I’d expect we’d lose characters (ex. Wolf) but removing characters for a port seems counter-intuitive and might disuade buyers.

From:Mega Smash Poll: Pre-Switch Poll: First Results
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Completely agree.

[su_spoiler title=”Triple S” style=”fancy”]

I feel like Shantae’s a must-have at this point. She just got a new game, and unlike Shovel Knight time has been her friend. She wouldn’t be a clone (then again, it’s never too late for Simon Belmont hehehehe…). I think Shantae would look great in HD. I really can’t see a reason why she wouldn’t get in at this point. What say you guys?

From: Will “Smash for Switch” Have NEW Characters
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Shantae would be a great addition to have, but I don’t think she’s likely.

[su_spoiler title=”HeroOrTraitor” style=”fancy”]

Ice climbers and Snake being cut was very sad to hear. I mean Ice Climbers being smash characters since melee and Snake being a full series completely gone from smash. It’s awesome to see people still hope for not just Ice Climbers but Snake as well.

More likely if one veteran comes back, it would be Ice Climbers, but I still have my hopes up for Snake to come back. He was my main in brawl and Snake being in brawl was the reason I got into the MGS series in the first place. If a character being in a fighting game makes you want to play more of their games, I say that says a lot about the influence that one character can have.

From: Mega Smash Poll: Pre-Switch Poll: First Results
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A lot of people are saying they believe Ice Climbers will be the sole veteran to come back. I agree with you though — I would love to have Snake come back. I even did a discussion about Snake in Smash!

[su_spoiler title=”anonymous SG fan” style=”fancy”]

Its funny because back when we were discussing ballot characters and whatnot a year ago, Corrin and/or Azura were considered shoo-ins for a Smash 5; so as much as the hatebase demonizes him now, I think its safe to believe we won’t see another FE newcomer in Smash Switch thanks to Corrin.

If the Smash ballot was any indicator, any character that regularly discussed by the fanbase or has been looked over based on false assumptions could be considered ‘salt-inducing’, even if the character could be considered fair game by any other standard. The additions of Ryu, Cloud, and Bayonetta indicate that the development team may be pulling from a much wider pool of potential newcomers than the characters that generally get pushed for by their respective fanbases.

From:5 Possible Salt Inducing Newcomers
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The issue with the fanbase is that we often convince ourselves of made up rules. “Oh we need more villains. But there’s not really any good villains. DK deserves more reps. It needs to be King K. Rool so it fills all these blanks”. Not saying K. Rool doesn’t have its’ fans (he certainly does) but a lot of the support felt like bandwagoning instead of genuine support.  Sakurai has stated numerous times that he needs to be like the chef — he needs to understand what his customers want without asking them. That being said, I think K. Rool is more likely because he falls in a similar position as Geno. And we know Geno almost made it into Brawl.

[su_spoiler title=”awesomeaussie27” style=”fancy”]

Got to say, this article is comedy gold. Especially the Style Savvy part given the backlash the third game received from disgruntled male gamers (Muh Federation Farce and Color Trash).

Also, first comment on SourceGaming hype!

From:5 Possible Salt Inducing Newcomers
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Welcome! Enjoy your stay!

[su_spoiler title=”MEMORY MAN! (@realmemoryman3)” style=”fancy”]

I will be salty if Daisy DIDN’T make it into Smash!

From:5 Possible Salt Inducing Newcomers
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Yeah, we know.

[su_spoiler title=”Igiulaw” style=”fancy”]

Does anyone truly, honestly believe there will be another Fire Emblem character? There are no relevant characters left, and no plausible scenario for that happening beyond people wanting to show off how incredibly cynical they are. I would ask those people do some introspection on their cognitive distortions and return when they’re ready to have a clear-headed conversation.

On the other hand, I think Shovel Knight is VERY plausible. What if Liam Robertson wasn’t completely misinformed? Perhaps Shovel Knight did very well in the western ballots but got denied due to lack of recognition in Japan? That’s certainly not an issue now thanks to Nintendo publishing the game there. Hell, wouldn’t it be funny to hear that Corrin was a last-minute replacement for Shovel Knight? But now I’m the one jumping to conclusions…

From:5 Possible Salt Inducing Newcomers
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Sorry, that Shovel Knight scenario did not happen.

[su_spoiler title=”Handy Man” style=”fancy”]

I want to see the sheer amount of salt that Goku from Yūyūki would erupt. Because everyone wants Goku in Smash, right?

From:5 Possible Salt Inducing Newcomers
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Haven’t seen you in awhile! How have you been?

Clearly everyone wants Goku!

[su_spoiler title=”Michael” style=”fancy”]

No mention of Steve from Minecraft? He’d induce more salt than any character on this list based on what I have seen that is for sure

From:5 Possible Salt Inducing Newcomers
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I believe I suggested Steve to LIQUID12A when he was writing this article. I guess he didn’t go with it :3

[su_spoiler title=”Peridot Gem” style=”fancy”]

Um excuse you but Fire Emblem has been getting treatment as a major ip recently. Wtf are you talking about. They got Fates and Tokyo Mirage Sessions on the same year. FE’s even going to get a phone app and only major ips like Animal Crossing are getting phone apps as of late. It’s on Animal Crossing’s and DK’s level. Zelda and Pokemon are more than major. Front runners.

Ranks:

Front Runner

A+ Mario
A Zelda
A Pokemon
A- Kirby

Major

A+ Animal Crossing
A Donkey Kong
A Fire Emblem
A- Star Fox
A- Metroid

Minor

A Golden Sun
A F-Zero
A Chibi Robo
A- Mother

From:5 Possible Salt Inducing Newcomers
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I agree with your ranking.

[su_spoiler title=”Anime9001” style=”fancy”]

Where did Sakurai say he thought 6 FE characters might be too much? I feel like I’ve heard this before, but I can’t really remember…. And it’d help paint a little better picture at what exactly happened with Corrin’s inclusion.

From: 5 Possible Salt Inducing Newcomers
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Once on Twitter and again in a Famitsu column!

[su_spoiler title=”backup368” style=”fancy”]

As the Nerd once said, there’s a difference between being old-school and being outdated.

When you look at Mario, you look at memorable characters that have stood the test of time & have begun what made the company what it is today. Super Mario is a brand that has organically turned into a pop culture icon & one that Nintendo can market with confidence. Everybody knows who Luigi is. Everybody knows who Peach is. There are a multitude of reasons why there are 7 Mario characters in Smash Bros.

When you look at Fire Emblem, you look at a series that has for decades tried to desperately sell well. For most of its existence, it has been a niche game that is written with a brand new story with every title in the series. Players only have one or two games to play in order to know a specific character, & then after that, they’re outdated. Path of Radiance outdated Sacred Stones, Awakening outdated Path of Radiance, Fates outdated Awakening, & it’s only a matter of time before Fates is last Tuesday. So as much as I understand that people like to play as Ike & Robin, why should they still be around if they have no future & hold no legacy? That is a double standard because that is exactly why Sakurai ruled out many other characters. It’s not like the creative team at Intelligent Systems will all of a sudden say “Hey, I feel like making another game with Ephraim in it.” Fire Emblem should not get new characters for every new game that comes out, & it’s outrageous that the man in charge believes it’s what Smash Bros. needs. Not just anybody should be qualified.

Sakurai stated his next project involves robots with guns, but why believe him? He’s out to swerve people once again & it won’t surprise me come January 12th that he’s at the helm once more for Smash Bros. & will find a new flavor of the month in the Chrom from Tokyo Mirage Sessions.

From: New Content Approaching: Corrin
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I need to look at that interview still (It came out when I was on vacation) but I believe he was looking to take the gun off the robot for another figure. So it might not be a robot in particular.

[su_spoiler title=”Anthony Acquilano” style=”fancy”]

I think this kind of crossover makes a lot of sense. I can’t say for sure but I don’t think Disney would approve of a fighting game like Nintendo VS Disney. A racing game featuring Nintendo and Disney characters I think has a more friendly competition vibe that Disney would approve of.

The Mario side of the roster works well. I do question the inclusion of Count Bleck considering he’s a 2D being and that may not translate well into 3D. Also, he hasn’t had a comeback and (even though he’s considered dead) Fawful as an RPG rep makes more sense since he’s featured in 3 RPG games. But it is an interesting choice. I do think Toad is more likely than Captain Toad but it’s not a bad choice at all and I know the creator wanted him in Mario Kart 8. I love the idea of bringing back Wart! He goes well with Oswald as a forgotten rep!

The Disney side is solid, too. Nothing needs to be said about the regulars like Mickey and Goofy. Love the inclusion of Oswald as I’m a big Epic Mickey fan! All the other inclusions make sense for the sake of historical significance and promotion that Disney would likely do in a case like this. I lament that Scrooge McDuck isn’t here and think with his significance and that a new DuckTales show is coming this year, that was a missed opportunity. But I understand that there’re other characters worthy of a spot. Maleficent would be more iconic as a villain but the more I think about her in a kart… It just doesn’t gel for me personally. Maybe she could be the big baddie of a game like this who challenges these characters to a tournament? Cruella, in my opinion, was a brilliant choice considering she has a car and is very distinct amongst Disney characters. Plus, 101 Dalmatians has significance to be the first Disney movie to use the Xerox process for animation. She’s getting her own movie, too, so there’s that.

This isn’t a criticism but another character getting a sequel to a live-action remake in the coming years is Baloo from The Jungle Book. The guy got a Disney Infinity figure rather than Mowgli and he’s a mainstay of Disney parks and other merch. Plus, The Jungle Book (1967) was Walt Disney’s last animated film that he personally worked on giving the film some historical significance. Another character worth considering are Captain Hook (since Peter Pan is an iconic Disney property).

On a side note, the potential for Disney race tracks just makes me so happy. Pleasure Island, Beast’s Castle, The Pride Lands, Zootopia, I could go on!

From:Dream Roster: Disney x Mario Kart
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A Disney x Nintendo racing game would make a lot of sense. There were also Disney cart games made by Rare back in the day!

[su_spoiler title=”MagcargoMan” style=”fancy”]

I don’t why Mewtwo doesn’t count as the Melee veteran.

From: 5 Possible Salt Inducing Newcomers
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He was never presented as that during ANY of the presentations, the shop details, anything.

 

 

That’s it for this time! Stay tuned for more featured comments.

56 comments
  1. Ah, I see. Hint hint, wink wink, say no more. 😉

    Igiulaw on January 5 |
  2. I guess what I meant was that franchise representation is only one of the criteria when choosing characters, so that focusing on only franchise representation when talking about excluding a character isn’t a convincing argument. I think before the DLC, people thought of franchise representation as a ‘golden rule’ in terms of the Smash roster, when now we can see it’s obviously just one of many factors that influences the roster.

    anonymous SG fan on January 5 |
  3. I’m barely here for a week and I get a featured comment? This is far too generous.

    awesomeaussie27 on January 5 |
  4. Fire Emblem at this rate will become a front runner yet people refuse to understand it’s success. People are just mad they didn’t get K Rool and I understand that. But it’s been long overdue to leave Corrin alone already.

    Peridot Gem on January 5 |
    • It had two successful games in recent history. One of which kind of had the perfect storm of riding off of a previous game’s success, tons more marketing than the others got, and even a nice dose of controversy to boost sales. You have no guarantee that it can keep up the momentum.

      Arthur 97 on January 5 |
      • You would’ve had a point there if it wasn’t for the fact Smash didn’t revive the series: Awakening did. All Smash did was give exposure and a chance. If Awakening failed the series was done for anyway.

        I’m pretty sure if Fire Emblem wasn’t anything, Nintendo would’ve refused the idea of SMT X FE. Like what happened with Star Fox Warriors. Tokyo Mirage Sessions is a giant love letter to FE. This happened on the same year with Fates.

        FE got weebs, otakus and many casuals attention once it went anime. Especially with how much Nintendo’s been giving it much attention and even giving it a mobile game. It wouldn’t make sense if Fire Emblem didn’t go anywhere afterward.

        Peridot Gem on January 6 |
        • I know it was Awakening, I’m just saying that it might not stand the test of time. Two games are hardly enough to establish a trend; not when the majority did “meh.”

          Also, Star Fox Warriors? Never heard of that pitch. And that pop idol “love letter” really just made fans of both series angry. Super Saiyan Marth.

          Arthur 97 on January 6 |
          • Nah as long as the series keeps bringing solid games with 3d cutscenes and gameplay. It will maintain it’s fame somewhat.

            The developers of Hyrule Warriors offered to make a Warriors for Star Fox and Nintendo refused the idea. Because of how nothing the series is currently. Some still enjoyed it and at the end a song is sung with Fire Emblem’s main theme so uh…. It’s somewhat a love letter.

            Peridot Gem on January 6 |
            • I’m not so sure. The tactical genre has historically run hot and cold. It’s getting hot right now, but it could just as easily cool back down. I’m just saying that making it a “front runner” may be somewhat premature until it has proven that it can stand the test of time which up until this point, it has not.

              I think it might be more of how the Warriors formula is not very conducive to Star Fox. Limited supply of characters plus the series is vehicle focused, and not Mech vehicles. You cannot say for sure why the idea may have been shot down.

              Arthur 97 on January 8 |
            • Nah as long as it delivers with story and characters it will live on. That’s how it got popular in the first place. It’s characters. Not the gameplay. The CHARACTERS.

              The devs could’ve made something up. Nintendo were the ones who refused the concept. The dev(s?) didn’t give up on the idea, Nintendo did because Star Fox is not so popular currently. That is the most likely scenario with Nintendo’s neglectful behavior towards smaller titles.

              Peridot Gem on January 8 |
            • So uh you were saying Fire Emblem wouldn’t last the test of time? It got 4 new games. Hahah! I told you Nintendo wants it to be major.

              Peridot Gem on January 23 |
            • Lol rip

              Peridot Gem on January 24 |
    • Keep thinking that. All that favouritism for Uprising in Smash 4 sure didn’t make Kid Icarus get any bigger.

      MagcargoMan on January 6 |
      • All Sakurai does is give exposure. ._. It’s up to the series to lift itself on it’s feet. Kid Icarus got more players bit failed to lift itself off it’s feet. Fire Emblem got more popular with casuals, anime lovers and weebs. It’s anime and support changing is what made everyone love it…. Y’know that right?

        Even if Corn cob wasn’t in the game, people would’ve saw the title of Fates and immediately think of Awakening and buy it.

        Peridot Gem on January 6 |
        • So Fire Emblem became more popular by becoming worse?

          MagcargoMan on January 6 |
          • In a matter of opinion, yes. I enjoyed it regardless. It’s basically Fire Emblem but a slight focus toward side stuff so meh.

            Peridot Gem on January 6 |
            • It does seem to be getting a little…sidetracked. To be fair, that helps to a point since in some (Shadow Dragon) it’s really hard to care about most of the cast. But when it becomes a visual novel with a little strategy thrown in, well, they may have went too far.

              Arthur 97 on January 6 |
        • As a big FE fan, I think Awakening blew up because it was the first game since 9 to have support convos and the children mechanic from 4. Also it has fancy CG cutscenes showing a masked Marth fighting zombies. All the other games look pretty underwhelming and don’t present well.
          I think that’s why the new X-com games succeeded they made the games more cinematic and interesting visually than the older ones.

          I think the problem with Kid Icarus is that Nintendo hasn’t made another one. I even think Sakurai heading the project might make other devs antsy because their games might not stack up to his. That or Nintendo hasn’t found the right person for the job, or they going to show it in a week.

          ex275w on January 6 |
          • Yeah, the older ones especially lack the presentation.

            Arthur 97 on January 6 |
      • Didn’t Sakurai once jokingly say that if people wanted a sequel to Uprising, they’d have to wait another 25 years?

        Because I certainly could see that. I’m happy Palutena got in considering she represents a new set of things in the series to base a moveset from (and she is the one who grants the powers in-game so it makes sense she uses them in Smash) but aside from that, Kid Icarus really didn’t get much when you look at it – two new stages, one in the Wii U and one in the 3DS, a few new items (Daybreak, Ore Club, Back Shield) and a bunch of enemies in Smash Run which was merely recycling assets.

        I’m not sure how exactly that translates into anything, but maybe Nintendo IS making a sequel to Uprising, or would make one eventually without Sakurai directing it. Kirby seems to be doing good despite not being under Sakurai (it’s obvious the current director is a huge fan of Super Star, which is a good thing.)

        The future is always bright.

        KL-Cobalt on January 8 |
        • It wouldn’t surprise me. And quite frankly after the shilling of it Smash 4 I wouldn’t mind either. I don’t want to see Kid Icarus again unless it goes in a direction different from Uprising and not made by Sakurai. I didn’t like the writing and plot, and the controls made it much less enjoyable for me.

          Kid Icarus got more new content in Smash 4 than these bigger series:
          – Donkey Kong
          – Yoshi (well this one’s sort of close to Mario so I guess it makes sense)
          – Wario (even if you separate Wario Land and WarioWare either of them is still bigger than KI)
          – Kirby (only just)
          – Pikmin
          – Metroid
          – Star Fox
          – F-Zero
          – Animal Crossing

          It was one of the few series to have a new stage in both versions, it has the third-most amount of items in the game, the most Smash Run enemies with nineteen of them (more than Mario:Nintendo’s flagship franchise) and Palutena is the only non-Mii Fighter character to have custom specials that are actual different moves.

          Also I found it rather lame how most of her specials are just stuff other characters have like a reflector, counter and warp. Most of the powers don’t suit her; they should have gave her more attacks involving light.

          MagcargoMan on January 9 |
          • I can’t say I agree, I loved Uprising and wanted more. If Sakurai wasn’t going to give it a shot, either occupied with a new project or continuing to work on Smash (again), my only hope would be another director to take the helm.

            The only thing I would change would be the controls, but since the Switch is likely the new system to take it, it would be less gimmicky and a less of a strain on players. (Despite that, I did get used to it, Dillon’s Rolling Western shares the same control scheme, so yeah…)

            And again, really most of the content of Kid Icarus doesn’t seem to be that much, sure cite the Smash Run enemies, but when you’ve already got assets to make the job easier, wouldn’t you take advantage of that?

            (And five new items? Really? That’s five more than what it had in Brawl, where Animal Crossing had an item before it even got a character, and there isn’t much from other series you mentioned. What kind of item could you get from F-Zero, Pikmin? Oh yeah, Pikmin got an item in SSB4 – one more than it had in Brawl)

            The powers in Uprising functioned similar to the moves in Smash as it was, and we did get light powers, Autoreticle, her Up Smash, etc.

            KL-Cobalt on January 9 |
  5. “…he needs to understand what his customers want without asking them.” Yet he keeps getting our orders wrong.

    Arthur 97 on January 5 |
    • You mean ‘your’ order wrong; Smash has millions of fans and Sakurai knows that he can’t possibly please everyone.

      Anonymous SG Fan on January 5 |
      • Didn’t I tell you to stop trolling me? I am not the only one unhappy with what he’s done. Also, that entire analogy is highly arrogant as he thinks he knows what we want more than us. If you went to a restaurant and ordered a steak and they gave you chicken, would you be happy?

        Arthur 97 on January 5 |
        • If out of 58 characters you are still unsatisfied with your options, you might want to try a different ‘restraunt’.

          Anonymous SG Fan on January 5 |
          • Actually, I’m quite satisfied with the base roster, and even most of the DLC, but he crossed a line in the last wave. Also, don’t bother responding to this if you can’t do it without being rude.

            Arthur 97 on January 5 |
            • So out of all of those choices only a handful of those dishes were not to your particular taste, and maybe they weren’t intended for you personally. Then why blame the chef?

              Anonymous SG Fan on January 5 |
      • Nobody ordered Corrin besides some executives at Nintendo.

        MagcargoMan on January 6 |
        • I think your tinfoil hat is on a little too tightly today.

          anonymous SG fan on January 6 |
          • Show me the demand for Corrin. Go on, where’s the evidence?

            MagcargoMan on January 6 |
            • Support for Corrin existed. It’s just they believed Corrin might’ve had a chance in Smash 5 and didn’t know their name.https://smashboards.com/threads/a-new-fate-the-new-fe14-protagonist-corrin-for-dlc-go-all-out-in-voting.397454/

              Peridot Gem on January 6 |
            • That threads about discussion, not demand. Do you have any polls or ballot data?

              MagcargoMan on January 6 |
            • Well it’s technically demand.

              Peridot Gem on January 6 |
            • You’re demanding evidence yet presenting none….

              Anonymous SG Fan on January 6 |
            • Because there is no evidence of Corrin being demanded.

              Meanwhile, Nintendo is pretending Fire Emblem is a major IP and Sakurai’s dev team encouraging him to put Corrin in. Hmmm…

              MagcargoMan on January 6 |
            • So you have nothing solid to back your claim? I didn’t think so.

              Anonymous SG Fan on January 6 |
            • Corrin is in the game when he had no demand and the execs pretend Fire Emblem is one of their major IPs. There’s your proof.

              MagcargoMan on January 6 |
            • Again, burden of proof is on you to prove there was no demand. Also you should probably stop mentioning that second point, its not exactly helping your argument.

              Anonymous SG Fan on January 6 |
    • Yeah because all those screams and tears were filled with rage when Cloud Strife was brought into the game 😉

      Peridot Gem on January 6 |
  6. Is it bad I get a sense of dread every time these articles pop up because I know I’m gonna be one of the featured comments? 😛

    “Not saying K. Rool doesn’t have its’ fans (he certainly does) but a lot of the support felt like bandwagoning instead of genuine support.”

    With all due respect, that’s bull****. I think you underestimate how many of us grew up with the DKC games and/or Donkey Kong 64. He’s the main villain of the DK series (his Smash 4 trophy even compares him to Bowser) and has a lot of potential with his surprising agility for a heavyweight and his multi-purpose blunderbuss. I can’t speak for others but getting up to K. Rool in the original Donkey Kong Country for the first time was a very memorable moment, especially after you get the first three hits on him and he starts raining cannonballs down, which usually lined up just in time with when the music shifts to the awesome rock part. He and his crew were also arguably the best part of the cartoon. He’s just such an important part of DK’s history, and I don’t understand how some people can act like not appearing in two games in a row somehow erases all that.

    You really want to know a bandwagon character with next to no genuine demand? Sceptile. Nobody asked him prior to Greninja’s reveal, and people only wanted him out of some OCD need to complete the starter triangle. In fact, I’m positive this demand for him in Smash is what lead to him getting into Pokken Tournament, which is fine there, but he really is not popular enough to be in Smash. In fact, I distinctly remember Grovyle being more popular than him in the Brawl days. He was the Grass starter people wanted, mainly due to the one in Mystery Dungeon.

    MagcargoMan on January 6 |
    • “He’s just such an important part of DK’s history, and I don’t understand how some people can act like not appearing in two games in a row somehow erases all that.”

      I think part of that is mostly due to the fact that despite the history involved, most of Smash 4’s newcomers were based on games that occurred between Brawl and Smash 4’s release cycle. Obviously Duck Hunt (Duo) was the exception, but every other newcomer that was not 3rd party had a game release between those games.

      And it’s fairly easy to see why K. Rool wasn’t in: The DK games that came out didn’t have him as the main villain – and that was done on Retro’s part in order to separate themselves from Rare’s legacy – because they knew that following Rare was a tough act to follow, considering how revered the original DKC games are.

      I know plenty people see Smash as a game that celebrates Nintendo’s legacy, and I know how much K. Rool means as a part of Donkey Kong’s history, but if the character didn’t show up in a major role – when the general theme of the newcomers are new blood and new interest – then it would be a bit odd for a character to show up who isn’t based on that. The addition of Duck Hunt was odd, but we usually always get a retro rep in some form or fashion, and I don’t think K. Rool has hit that threshold.

      As far as bandwagoning is concerned: While K. Rool was always a popular choice, I don’t think anyone could deny that when Sakurai put his foot down on Ridley, that there was a significant increase of volume in backing K. Rool. K. Rool did become the new Ridley – and as it stands who knows if K. Rool will make it in – it all depends on if they are willing to listen to fans or if there would be a new Donkey Kong game that features K. Rool as a prominent role.

      “You really want to know a bandwagon character with next to no genuine demand? Sceptile. Nobody asked him prior to Greninja’s reveal, and people only wanted him out of some OCD need to complete the starter triangle. In fact, I’m positive this demand for him in Smash is what lead to him getting into Pokken Tournament, which is fine there, but he really is not popular enough to be in Smash. In fact, I distinctly remember Grovyle being more popular than him in the Brawl days. He was the Grass starter people wanted, mainly due to the one in Mystery Dungeon.”

      And Sceptile/Grovyle were outdated by the time those games came out. I think the issue there is mostly promoting the latest flavor in Pokemon, and even then, Pokemon that have become fan favorites like Lucario and Greninja will likely not go out of style. Pokemon Trainer and later Charizard seem to be an exception there because Pokemon Trainer represented team balance and Charizard’s popularity as well as being already there in a sense helped him become a sole character.

      KL-Cobalt on January 8 |
      • I’ve always found following what’s recent and only adding the flavour of the month rather cynical and short-sighted, since it relies on a contemporary popularity that could easily wane in the future. Smash 4’s roster is gonna look incredibly dated in a few years, and half the newcomers are pushed aside for whoever’s recent in the next. Brawl did it better by having a good mix of old school, modern and in-between characters.

        Sakurai’s made it pretty clear he doesn’t care about Donkey Kong beyond his arcade roots. It got the bare minimum in Smash 4 despite DKC being revived with two big new games.

        I don’t think you understood my point about Sceptile.

        Off-topic, but I didn’t notice it was you at first. I thought it was a new user because of that avatar.

        MagcargoMan on January 9 |
  7. Might be too ridiculous to implement but I think for a Dragon Quest Hero they could make it like Bowser Jr. and the Koopalings and have the Main characters from Dragon Quest 1-8 since they do all have relatively the same build (slender young man), skills (lightning magic, can equip the boomerang, cast healing magic, have Gigagash), and weapons (Hell the Heroes from 4-6 all use the Zenithian equipment). 9 and 10 do have a customizable character so there there’s no default unlike the other games although 4 does have a gender select option.

    It’s why I never understood the Slime pick, the heroes are good choices, although I do think them making different 8 models might be too much of a chore since they might play similar to Link.

    ex275w on January 6 |
  8. Censored Gaming has a great video on the history of Mortal Kombat in Japan. While the newer games’ retail releases are outlawed, there is a cult following that holds televised tournaments.

    Rayman Legends was a Wii U exclusive in Japan and published by Nintendo there.

    While Smash Bros. does feel like a vast franchise, there is no global precense, & there aren’t that many third party characters left that would feel special. Apart from Bayonetta and possibly Snake, all the 3rd party characters are actual gaming icons. Including characters for promotional short term endeavors is fine, I keep hearing a Dragon Quest character mentioned here and there, but would that character draw money is another story. Sakurai has said that Japan need more top 10 worldwide sales, well he should know by now that Smash Bros is not going to send American gamers in droves to Gamestop for the latest Fire Emblem.

    J. G. (@GeneralRayburn) on January 7 |
  9. How is Snake NOT a gaming icon? Also adding characters for short term promotions is incredibly short-sighted.

    MagcargoMan on January 8 |
  10. The rage some people have against FE will never stop being funny. Fire Emblem has become a strong pillar in Nintendo’s lineup and continues to generate strong merchandise sales. Fire Emblem Mobile is only going to make the IP bigger. It’s time for people to grow up and accept reality.

    K Rool on January 8 |
    • The reality is Fire Emblem was going to be killed off if Awakening failed (gee, what a strong pillar there) and does not deserve six characters in Smash.

      MagcargoMan on January 9 |
      • But it was successful and Nintendo is now going out of it’s way to promote FE and feature multiple titles with it’s name. Fire Emblem got off lucky and is managed to get on Animal Crossing and DK’s level.

        Peridot Gem on January 9 |
  11. First of all, thanks for that – I liked being reminded that Disney Infinity is done and over with. Sure we got Marvel VS Capcom infinite out of it (Maybe it could come to the Switch, please thank you?) but the ramifications of not having a 4.0 and not getting the Keyblade by default (I have to buy most of the 3.0 characters) or other Kingdom Hearts themes… I’m honestly not sure if I liked that. Granted Disney completely bombed with Infinity with content (aside from Star Wars, 3.0 was lacking in content, especially from Disney.) but that’s another deal.

    On that note, I’m still not entirely sure on Sora for Smash. I really don’t want to pull out another reason, because not presenting it all up front now makes it seem like I’ll just be making excuses to keep him out, so all I can say is that despite all the events happening with Disney in terms of games and copyright and whatnot, I… Still don’t see Sora appearing in Smash – at all.

    Disney may be easier to work with now, but they weren’t for a while. And I feel that if Disney were to do anything in relation to Smash, they would rather want to see their more well known cartoon characters instead of Sora – even if Sakurai requested him specifically.

    But the idea of a racing game sounds great.

    KL-Cobalt on January 8 |
  12. I think I’ll have to slightly disagree with Peridot Gem’s rankings on Nintendo’s minor franchises. F-Zero got two tracks and a cart in Mario Kart 8, Chibi Robo got Zip Lash a while back, and Mother had Earthbound Beginnings released on the Virtual Console. On the other hand, I don’t think Golden Sun has had any notable news in quite a long time (the second game isn’t even on the Virtual Console if I’m not mistaken). I’m a huge fan of Golden Sun and I really want there to be a new game, but I don’t think it’s even on the scale of those other three at the moment. I can only hope for the future.

    Spiral on January 9 |
    • F-Zero hasn’t gotten a game in a long time though, Only references due to him showing up in Smash.

      I don’t really think Chibi-Robo is all that major…. Only 5 games after all.

      Shame. If only the series would return.

      Peridot Gem on January 9 |
      • That’s still two more games than Kid Icarus has.

        MagcargoMan on January 9 |
        • and? I never declared Kid Icarus as major

          Peridot Gem on January 9 |
      • I didn’t mean to imply that those three were major, just that if the series towards the top of the list were more relevant/important than the ones at the bottom, then Golden Sun has less power than the others in its category.

        Spiral on January 9 |
        • My bad. But F-Zero and Golden Sun and Chibi Robo technically share the shame rank since they all have As no A+s…. No A-…..

          Peridot Gem on January 9 |