Featured Comments

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Last week’s Featured Comments got over 50 comments! I believe that’s a new record. So this week, I’ll be responding to the comments that are responding to the responses I made from comments (jeez, this is awkward).

Voyager responded to a lot of the comments made on Potential Characters for the Next Smash Roster – Conclusion –! Make sure to check out his responses too!

This article looks at comments made from the October 23rd- October 27th (Japan time)!

Remember, don’t insult other posters. If you insult other posters, your post that you might have spent so much time on might not get approved, and thrown in the trash. Stay classy!

MahBoiIstehWindWaker

That idea has been around for awhile. Frostwraith briefly addressed it in his Ganondorf article. The current Ganondorf moveset just wouldn’t fit on Black Shadow’s character.

 

Spiral

I feel exactly the same way. Keeping rhythm would be difficult, but I can’t imagine how else a character from the series would be represented.

 

ze

It’s natural, and it’s okay if that was the only stage. But if they are going to bring back old stages, it wouldn’t hurt to mix up variety a bit.

DK64 isn’t niche 😛 Also Donkey Konga had 3 entries in the series. I remember in the States it enjoyed some popularity.

For music, I believe composers select it themselves. Sakurai gives a list of songs, and composers can pick which song to work on.

Mewtwo was probably decided and planned before DLC. It seems very much like a bonus for buying both versions. They have NEVER referenced his veteran status when he came back as DLC. With Roy and Lucas, it was all about their veteran status.

HolySeadramon

But the only difference what you suggested and what we got is that we got Roy. In that sense, Roy is truly a bonus.

MagcargoMan

Mewtwo was revealed MUCH earlier than Lucas. When they showed Lucas, Roy and Ryu were already in development. When they announced Mewtwo, the three might not have even been decided.

They never referenced Mewtwo’s revival in the trailer, the eShop description, etc. They always said “popular fighter”.

As far as clones go, Sakurai has said (During Melee):

If I could add one or two more characters, then [Wario] could have gotten in. Of all the characters I discarded, [he’s] ranked near the top.

However, even if I didn’t work on several clone characters he wouldn’t have gotten in.

Even if I deleted characters from before (Jigglypuff, Luigi) he wouldn’t have gotten in.

You might think it’s impossible that even if we delete one character in development that it couldn’t be replaced with another character….

I would have needed to get rid of both Marth and Roy or Mewtwo in order for Wario to get in

Personally, I don’t see that much reason to be angry about Lucina, Dark Pit and Dr. Mario getting their character slots. For me, there’s no difference if they can be selected on the main screen or just as alts. We know that Sakurai had already planned differences for those alts, as they would’ve played differently already. However, Sakurai thought that since they played differently, they needed new “slots” so for record keeping purposes. Which makes sense. KOs as Dr. Mario would’ve counted as Mario KOs, and that would make accurate reporting difficult. I’m assuming after this decision was made, Rock Pikmin were dropped and Alph was made into just an alt.

For me, as long as they don’t take a lot of development time, I say “why not?”. Some clones can be worked on to be further decloned, but for some of the clones it doesn’t make sense to declone them. Mario, Luigi and Dr. Mario are all based off the same character and that makes sense given their history and relation.

Mettaur

If Nintendo continues this trend of porting over everything that the Wii U had to offer, there’s no reason to keep it.

backup368

The Wii U would’ve cost more just for the graphic/animation alone.

Kid Icarus Uprising development didn’t even start off as a Kid Icarus title. It started off as a Star Fox game. Nice try.

Those titles also have a LOT less characters. Street Fighter IV, which sports a much bigger roster than its’ sequel, has several clones. I’m sure it’s the same with the other games too.

Spiral
Spiral

Two comments from Spiral that I agree with.

 

Sorry guys, that’s all I have time to respond this week. I’ll need to do extra days next week! Keep on commenting and follow SG on Twitter!

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21 comments

  1. “Kid Icarus Uprising development didn’t even start off as a Kid Icarus title. It started off as a Star Fox game. Nice try.”

    Not really.

    Uprising didn’t start off as “anything”, per se. After Iwata came up to Sakurai to ask him to make an original game for the upcoming 3DS, Sakurai initially thought of a game that would switch between aerial and grounded combat. After that, Iwata and Sakurai decided to find a Nintendo series that would fit their new game idea the best. Star Fox WAS considered, but they ultimately went with Kid Icarus because Sakurai felt that IP fit his design better. In its very initial state, Uprising was simply just a blank slate. It didn’t start off as Star Fox.

  2. “Ridley, on the other hand, is consistently shown as “way bigger than Samus”. ”

    Someone hasn’t played Other M. He was a juvenile Raptor chicken thing in that. Some have suggested making that playable and turning full blown Ridley through Final Smash. Can’t say I agree with that one but it is just another way around it.

    This is the point I would make about Ridley through “going there”. There have been many reasons provided to justify Ridley’s inclusion over the years by many of us that wanted it from the start. Things like “if Ridley is too big Olimar is too small” get dismissed by people but can anybody on the internet say for certain that Sakurai thought of things like Olimar at the time?

    That is what makes me convinced some are just saying it because Sakurai said it. They discard stances like Olimar’s size and NES Ridley likely because they believe Sakurai thought of this when in truth he probably hasn’t.

    When you are thinking of characters on the spot like he is you will come to very different conclusions to people like me who thought about Ridley for years. And I am of the opinion that Sakurai can find a way to do it. It just requires thinking outside the box (like Liquid pointed out already).

    TLDR version: we don’t know what led Sakurai to conclude Ridley is too big. Don’t rule it out as somebody who put comments in the ballot may have given him “the idea” that makes him work.

    1. You are correct in saying that I haven’t played Other M. I have seen the chicken version of Ridley though, he has a trophy in Smash for Wii U and I’ve looked it up on the wiki. When people talk about Ridley being playable though, I would imagine that they don’t mean that Ridley, they want the dragon Ridley. I wouldn’t play as Baby Bowser from Yoshi’s Island DS and think that I’m playing as ‘Bowser’.

      Context needs to be addressed when comparing Ridley to Olimar, though. Olimar is canonically a tiny character and they have up-scaled him for Smash, but that’s easier to justify when there’s not a lot in Smash that has to compare to his size. If a Bulborb were to appear in Smash, it would have to be significantly larger than Olimar in turn (as it does in Smash Run, though the one that appears on the Distant Planet stage is huge even by Pikmin standards). Similarly, Ridley in Smash has to compare to Samus, since she represents the scale of how things from her universe should appear.

      1. I think your point is where Sakurai may be coming from (provided he thought of Olimar’s size). Ridley is a difficult situation but I believe the fans will have their way one day. Its just difficult to judge when.

        Since this is the first time Sakurai considered him to be playable it might turn out like Villager or the Mii Fighters (he looks at him a second time with something in mind to make him fit in). Also I have come up with something for Emperor Bulblax. But I am bias to Metroid and Pikmin.

        I recommend you try Other M if you can get it cheap enough. Everybody who likes Metroid should give it a shot and I love the art style. I don’t think it is as bad as people claim.

  3. Clones have no reason to be removed, Magcargo’s bad experience from the current clones led him in false belief that there’s been only clones that overrep such as FE, KI and Mario. When that’s far from the truth. Star Fox, Legend of Zelda, Pokemon and technically Earthbound got clones. Clones have been long reaching out to the other franchises in Smash. Of course when it touches FE and Kid Icarus people lose their minds jfc.

    1. They have every reason to be removed or changed. And nope, there was bad experience in the previous games too. In Brawl Star Fox was overrepped with three characters when such a small series (five games at the time, six if count Star Fox 2 even though it wasn’t released) and gave birth to the infamous “Landmaster Final Smashes for everyone” meme (the meme is funny, but the point is three identical Final Smashes is completely lame, and Star Wolf don’t even have tanks) and Toon Link doesn’t use any items exclusive to Wind Waker, which disappoints me as a fan of that game.

      And in Melee clones led to Falcondorf who still persists in Smash to this very day, as well as Falco’s sacred cow status that caused him to get in over Wolf in Smash 4 when the latter was more unique from Fox. Not to mention Dr Mario and Roy returning in Smash 4 because they existed in Melee in the first place.

      And yeah, Pokemon had a clone. A clone who was cut, had an awful gimmick and nobody likes unironically.

      1. No they don’t. You’re just in personal bias against them. They only exist for fans. Can’t and won’t change it.

          1. Giving extra doesn’t affect quality, the overwhelming majority never batted an eye at the clones. They sometimes even play as them for fun and/or because they like the character from the homegame. If there’s fans of Pichu then there’s people who enjoy Lucina, Dark Pit and Doc.

  4. “The current Ganondorf moveset just wouldn’t fit on Black Shadow’s character.”

    Would it not though? I’ll fully admit my knowledge about the F-Zero series is severely lacking, but after a bit of looking into Black Shadow, Ganondorf’s current moveset really doesn’t seem at that ill-fitting.

    Looking at Black Shadow’s character he doesn’t seem to exist for any other reason than for the sake of being the bad guy. Every facet of his character from his physical appearance to his personality to even his name are about classically villainous as you can get. There isn’t much here to work with beyond the fact that Black Shadow is a big scary villain, and since Ganondorf’s current moveset essentially boils down his entire character to “big scary villain” it might actually be a better fit for Black Shadow.

    Now Frostwraith argues Black Shadow should be based off his F-Zero machine the Black Bull since Captain Falcon is based off the Blue Falcon. I’m not entirely convinced Falcon’s moveset is at all based on his F-Zero machine, however this is still a reasonable line of thinking as its the only thing that really differentiates him from the other racers from a gameplay perspective.

    Looking at stats in F-Zero only 4 are actually shown to the player: weight, body, boost, and grip. Weight seems to differ slightly from game to game while the other 3 stats remain consistent. The Black Bull has the second highest weight of any non-custom machine in GX, I’m assuming its similarly heavy in other titles. It has the highest possible rank of A in body, a stat that determines both damage dealt when ramming other machines and the machine’s own durability, effectively both its offensive and defensive power. It also has an A in grip which determines handling. The only remotely speed based stat is boost which determines the effectiveness/length of boosts once activated, in this area the Black Bull has the lowest possible rank of E. The picture I’m getting from this is that the Black Bull is a powerhouse both offensively and defensively, capable of easily smacking around other vehicles with its superior handling but probably not all that great at actually winning races due to ineffective boosts.

    Based on these stats I’d expect Black Shadow to be a character with both strong attacking and defensive power, likely a hard hitting heavy-weight, who’s easy to use but a bit on the slow side. This makes it seem pretty cut and dry, however F-Zero GX is somewhat notorious for showing the player inaccurate stats. The Black Bull’s actual stats in that game tell a different story. Testing of GX has shown the the Black Bull does indeed have the highest top speed in the game though its acceleration is among the worst. Its body and handling stats also aren’t as good as the displayed stats would have you believe and its boost is not quite the worst of the batch.

    This discrepancy may be due to the fact that GX simply copies its stat ranks/grades from F-Zero X, a game which (as far as I can tell though I’ve not found any testing done to the extent of GX) had accurate stats. From what I’ve read, in this game (and Black Shadow’s first appearance) the Black Bull really was more about smashing up opponents than out speeding them. I’ve not been able to find hidden stats for X nor other two F-Zero games Black Shadow appeared in, GP Legend and Climax, so its hard to gauge how the Black Bull played in those games as I’ve not played them myself. However, I was unable to find any mention of the stats for those games being inaccurate, so for the time being I have to assume they’re correct and that the Black Bull plays as advertised in those three games.

    This leaves us with something of a discrepancy between how the Black Bull is depicted, however from what I can tell the slower but more powerful variant shows up more often than the faster but more frail one at three games to one. The game’s descriptions of the Black Bull also seem to build on X’s version, talking about how the machine is a destructive force capable of taking a lot of punishment, and how it was supposedly built with the purpose of being able to easily destroy other machines, which is in line with Black Shadow’s goal to kill Captain Falcon during a race.

    Given that, I gotta say powerful, heavy, and slow sound like they’d fit just fine with Black Shadow. Adding to that, I don’t think Black Shadow would look odd using any of the moves Ganondorf currently has apart from the final smash and the custom that involves his sword, both of which would presumably be changed. I also don’t think Black Shadow would be lacking any substantial part of his character if given this moveset (because if we’re being honest there doesn’t seem to be much there). Now none of this is to say I at all expect Black Shadow to take Ganondorf’s moveset and the concern about including a character just for the sake of keeping an existing moveset present in the franchise is reasonable enough. However, if we’re just asking the question “Would Ganondorf’s current moveset be a good fit for Black Shadow?” I believe the answer to be a resounding yes.

      1. You aren’t tossing anything though, that’s kind of the entire reason people bring up this scenario to begin with. It presents a way to give Ganondorf a more suitable moveset without ridding Smash of his current one.

            1. All I said was that Ganon’s moveset would be terrible on Black Shadow you had no reason to reply to this comment about this subject then.

  5. “The Wii U would’ve cost more just for the graphic/animation alone.”

    If that were the case, then Super Mario Maker shouldn’t be a $60 game. It’s a $60 game because of all the content it has and its playability.

    “Kid Icarus Uprising development didn’t even start off as a Kid Icarus title. It started off as a Star Fox game. Nice try.”

    I find that hard to believe, given that Sakurai had this Kid Icarus itch ever since Brawl.

    “Those titles also have a LOT less characters. Street Fighter IV, which sports a much bigger roster than its’ sequel, has several clones. I’m sure it’s the same with the other games too.”

    This tells me that you clearly never played or seen Street Fighter IV. Until you have actually seen the game, you can make the assumption that each character is uniquely animated. I have the game, and I can confidently say that the characters who you’re questioning as “clones” are not just copied and pasted. Here are screens of Ryu, Ken, and Akuma’s different attacks, and you can judge for yourself.

    http://iplaywinner.com/ryu-ssf4
    http://iplaywinner.com/ken-ssf4
    http://iplaywinner.com/akuma-ssf4

    1. Yet there’s entire stages, graphical and frame improvements and more exclusive modes lol.

      Do your research before doing baseless assumptions about Sakurai like that. Star Fox was going to be the Uprising. You’re just too ignorant to see past “HURR DUUR SAKURAI IS 100% PURE BIAS. 30 FE CHARS CUNFIRMED 5 SMASH”..

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